# 6 Deck H17 Playing Deviations

#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
Can I get a chart for Hi-Lo 6 Deck H17 playing deviations for the following?

LS
17 vs A
16 vs 7
16 vs A
15 vs 7
15 vs 8
15 vs A
14 vs A
13 vs 10
88 vs A

The charts should look like this and show how the advantage changes with the count. I want to see a chart and not just index numbers.

I only need the ones listed above because I got the rest from https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

I know I'm asking for a lot and I doubt anyone will even bother with my first request, but it would be great if I could also get charts for the following:

6 Deck H17 DAS
99 vs A

6 Deck H17 NDAS
99 vs A

Double Downs for 6 Deck H17
11 vs A
10 vs A
8 vs 6
7 vs 6
A8 vs 6
A2 vs 6

6 Deck H17 Hard Hit/Stand
16 vs A
15 vs A
12 vs 6
A7 vs A

I'm making a basic strategy chart that includes playing deviations in the chart. Basic strategy is the first word when there is a playing deviation in a white space. Here is what I have so far. If I can get the charts I asked for, I will show the updated chart.

Edit: The values for the previous chart were floored. They should be correct now.

The black numbers are EV-Maximizing indices. They are not ideal for Doubling, Splitting, and Surrendering. If I can get charts for the following, I can improve the table. I will post the rest of this table if I can get what I asked for, along with a table for 6 Deck, S17, DAS, LS. I have added all of the playing deviations from the site I previously linked except for a few splits that are not worth the risk.

When it comes to doubling, you should double for less if the true count is in between the EV-Maximizing index and the Risk Averse index. If it's below the black number, you would hit. If it's above the gold number, you would do a full double down. The same goes for Insurance. Insure for less if the true count is between the two numbers. As for even money, you either take it or don't, but it's still risk averse. This is ideal for Kelly betting.

I can add way more to these tables if someone is willing to send me the charts. I will post more tables if someone is willing to help me with playing deviation charts.

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#### Dog Hand

##### Well-Known Member
DoubleOnHard20 said:
When it comes to doubling, you should double for less if the true count is in between the EV-Maximizing index and the Risk Averse index. If it's below the black number, you would hit. If it's above the gold number, you would do a full double down.
DoubleOnHard20,

On what authority do you base this assertion? For example, with 10 vs. X at a TC of +5, you would suggest a double for less? Intuitively, that sounds wrong to me.

Dog Hand

P.S. Really pretty chart, though! The colors should help the user memorize the information.

#### Meistro

##### Well-Known Member
Please refer to Stanford Wong's Professional Blackjack for H17 charts. Alternatively, you can find that info in Norm's CVCX or CVDATA software.

#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
Dog Hand said:
DoubleOnHard20,

On what authority do you base this assertion? For example, with 10 vs. X at a TC of +5, you would suggest a double for less? Intuitively, that sounds wrong to me.
If you have a true count of +2, do you bet the table max? Doubling down for the full amount regardless of your advantage for the hand is the equivalent of betting the max as soon as the count gives you an advantage. Risk averse indices take this into account. It's a bet spread for double downs. For most double downs you would always double for full, especially against a 6. There are only a few that have a smaller advantage.

They will reduce your risk of ruin a lot while sacrificing a smaller amount of EV in proportion. A lower risk of ruin allows you to bet more, increasing EV more than the amount given up when doubling down for less. If you adjust your bet spread to make your risk of ruin be the same as before, your EV will actually be more than before. 10 vs 10 is the most important one and accounts for around two-thirds of the advantage of using risk averse indices. If you only want to learn one, learn that one.

#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
Meistro said:
Please refer to Stanford Wong's Professional Blackjack for H17 charts. Alternatively, you can find that info in Norm's CVCX or CVDATA software.
I don't have the book or the software. I don't want to spend money just to add a few indices when someone else who already has it could help me out. I need a chart that shows the advantage change with the true count to find the risk averse index, like the one I showed in the post.

If you have CVData, could you get me the charts for those playing deviations?

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
DoubleOnHard20 said:
If you have a true count of +2, do you bet the table max? Doubling down for the full amount regardless of your advantage for the hand is the equivalent of betting the max as soon as the count gives you an advantage. Risk averse indices take this into account. It's a bet spread for double downs. For most double downs you would always double for full, especially against a 6. There are only a few that have a smaller advantage.

They will reduce your risk of ruin a lot while sacrificing a smaller amount of EV in proportion. A lower risk of ruin allows you to bet more, increasing EV more than the amount given up when doubling down for less. If you adjust your bet spread to make your risk of ruin be the same as before, your EV will actually be more than before. 10 vs 10 is the most important one and accounts for around two-thirds of the advantage of using risk averse indices. If you only want to learn one, learn that one.
Spoken like someone who's read chapter 13 of BJA3!

Don

#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
DSchles said:
Spoken like someone who's read chapter 13 of BJA3!

Don
I haven't read the book lol

#### Meistro

##### Well-Known Member
So what is the magic percentage of our original bet to double down on, under your highly dubious double for less theory?

#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
Meistro said:
So what is the magic percentage of our original bet to double down on, under your highly dubious double for less theory?
It's not my theory lol. Like Dschles said, chapter 13 of BJA3.

I guess you won't help me then

I hope you avoid heat and don't get backed off from Chuck E. Cheese's. Good luck getting those tickets. I would recommend ordering pizza with a diet Pepsi. All the ploppies do that.

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#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
DSchles said:
Not sure I believe that.

Don
I don't have any blackjack book. I get all of my information online for free. I'm considering getting that book though.

Do you know how to generate an advantage chart with the true counts like the one shown by using CVData? I might get it just to get the indices I don't have, but I have no idea how to use it. I'm not sure if it's worth the price when I already have this many indices.

#### DSchles

##### Well-Known Member
DoubleOnHard20 said:
I don't have any blackjack book. I get all of my information online for free. I'm considering getting that book though.

Do you know how to generate an advantage chart with the true counts like the one shown by using CVData? I might get it just to get the indices I don't have, but I have no idea how to use it. I'm not sure if it's worth the price when I already have this many indices.
Naw, definitely not worth the price. Nothing else in the book that you can't get for free on the Internet. Don't know why I bothered to write it.

Don

#### DoubleOnHard20

##### Well-Known Member
DSchles said:
Naw, definitely not worth the price. Nothing else in the book that you can't get for free on the Internet. Don't know why I bothered to write it.

Don
Would you mind getting me the charts I asked for? lol