How do you beat a 6-deck game?

[aslan]

1. Only play with 70% or better pen?

2. Only play with 75% or better pen?

3. Always wong out at the prescribed exit points?

4. Only play when you can wong in?

5. Spread at least 8X?

6. Spread at least 10X?

7. Spread at least 12X?

8. Spread at least 16X?

9. Ramp up more aggressively (ex, 2, 4, 8, 16) according to % advantage?

10. Stay aways from 6-deck games?

11. Other?

What are the most important factors to you in beating a 6-deck game?

 

[bj bob]

Here's the right combo

Aslan, why don't you try combining #2, 8 and 10 (on DD). That should provide you hours of excitement.:devil:

 

[Sonny]

Every one of those is correct except for #10.

1. Only play with 70% or better pen?

2. Only play with 75% or better pen?

70% pen is technically playable if you’re playing aggressively, but 75% is the minimum that most counters would accept. A 70% game can be more attractive to novice shuffle trackers though.

3. Always wong out at the prescribed exit points?

4. Only play when you can wong in?

Yeah, Wonging is going to be crucial. I do it as often as possible.

5. Spread at least 8X?

6. Spread at least 10X?

7. Spread at least 12X?

8. Spread at least 16X?

9. Ramp up more aggressively (ex, 2, 4, 8, 16) according to % advantage?

The ramp will depend on the Wonging. At least one of the two has to be aggressive. Both is better.

11. Other?

Ah, my favorite!

-Sonny-

 

[bj bob]

Living dangerously

"Chainsaw juggler"..."Bullet Chaser"...what's next, Sonny? Single deck wonger? Your life style is just too much for my nerves.:laugh:

 

[Sonny]

what's next, Sonny? Single deck wonger?

How'd you know?

-Sonny-

P.S. - Bullet = Ace

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

I've been doing at least decent at six deck shoes at low end tables with a 12x to 16x spread. The cut card usually holds back the last deck. One unit = 5 bucks.

So i guess that is a potential 5/6ths penetration or 83%. Had some killer sessions of $550.00 an hour. Good thing too.

Because I've been so sick with the Flu the past week and a half that even Aslan would feel sorry for me.:laugh:

Couldn't work my regular job much so had to play cards to bring in the rent money. I don't like to do that but necessity always being the mother of invention...

 

[aslan]

Aslan, why don't you try combining #2, 8 and 10 (on DD). That should provide you hours of excitement.:devil:

Especially #10, bj :whip: :laugh:

 

[aslan]

Every one of those is correct except for #10.



70% pen is technically playable if you’re playing aggressively, but 75% is the minimum that most counters would accept. A 70% game can be more attractive to novice shuffle trackers though.



Yeah, Wonging is going to be crucial. I do it as often as possible.



The ramp will depend on the Wonging. At least one of the two has to be aggressive. Both is better.



Ah, my favorite!

-Sonny-

Sonny, I've been going to AC 6 to 8 days a month since June and I have never seen 75% pen. Yes, it happens one shoe, but I have never seen it repeated twice. Mostly what I have seen is 67% and less. Some trips I have seen 70%. At the Borgata, the dealers are trained to cut "a little more than 2 decks" in a six deck game. That's what, 62%? If you're right, AC games are nearly unbeatable, and maybe not worth the risk of playing.

 

[aslan]

I've been doing at least decent at six deck shoes at low end tables with a 12x to 16x spread. The cut card usually holds back the last deck. One unit = 5 bucks.

So i guess that is a potential 5/6ths penetration or 83%. Had some killer sessions of $550.00 an hour. Good thing too.

Because I've been so sick with the Flu the past week and a half that even Aslan would feel sorry for me.:laugh:

Couldn't work my regular job much so had to play cards to bring in the rent money. I don't like to do that but necessity always being the mother of invention...

Irish

How can you say that! I feel terrible that you are sick. You sure are a lucky devil finding a game with 83% pen. I can only dream what that's like. Hurry up and get better, fella.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Contact me vie P/M and I'll tell you of my two local haunts. I don't want to wear these joints out just yet. Sure they're smoke filled but the drive is pleasant if a little hilly. Good rooms are few and far between here.

Always appreciate any low tables where there's good penetration. So spread your ideas hither and fro but keep discreet. The private message being wisest. You i trust as well as most the crew. The problem is the lurkers who read these pages. Kind of like narcs who'd rat out their best friend for a few bucks. See "Linda Tripp" for instance. No one likes that biatch. On either side.

After reading Stanford Wong's and Arnold Snyder's cautions of explicitly describing location and trip itineraries I'm a little loathe to mention my activities in writ form. Even if one of these tips came from our local cast in full view of the forum. Think maybe it was Moo or Monkey. Can't quite remember which one.

In fact i sorta enjoy a buxom "deck" with decent penetration. A mildly plump Jewish girl i can't seem to get out of my mind. She was only 19 but jumped like a bunny. Back in 1982 under alcoholic conditions. I wasn't running for public office back then either. Or now. Betcha she weighs two hundred pounds by now.

"Beat me daddy beat me daddy" was her phrase at top volume. A young woman, she really liked the "bad boys" of which I'm not. Sure was an education for me. Afraid she was slightly disappointed I wouldn't really kick her asss. Slapped it a few times but nothing serious. Am just too nice of a guy. Really. She did like the deck penetration though

Plus i was a lush back then. Drunk as a skunk nearly 24/7...


I found this post hysterically funny. How about the crowd?

Reason it's funny is because it's all true.

 

[21forme]

Sonny, I've been going to AC 6 to 8 days a month since June and I have never seen 75% pen. Yes, it happens one shoe, but I have never seen it repeated twice. Mostly what I have seen is 67% and less. Some trips I have seen 70%. At the Borgata, the dealers are trained to cut "a little more than 2 decks" in a six deck game. That's what, 62%? If you're right, AC games are nearly unbeatable, and maybe not worth the risk of playing.

You sure your deck estimation skills are up to snuff? The only place I've seen 2D+ cut off (6D game) in AC with any regularity is Resorts. Don't forget there are some 8D games with 1 - 1 1/2 decks cut off and they can be as good, if not better, than some of the 6D games you're seeing.

 

[scanner]

Last night they were cutting 1.5 to 1.75 decks off of a 6 deck shoe, sometimes leaning towards 1 deck.

Then a brand new dealer came in. She had just started earlier in the week. She cut off less than half a deck on her first shoe. Over 90% penetration. I've never seen anything like it.

Of course this shoe stayed neutral most of the time, and only slight creeped into positive territory. I think I made half a dozen bets at higher than minimum. *sigh*

I wonder if the other players at the table saw my eyes bug out or the drool running down my chin when she stuck that cut card in 24 cards from the back of the pack. :laugh:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Last night they were cutting 1.5 to 1.75 decks off of a 6 deck shoe, sometimes leaning towards 1 deck.

Then a brand new dealer came in. She had just started earlier in the week. She cut off less than half a deck on her first shoe. Over 90% penetration. I've never seen anything like it.

Of course this shoe stayed neutral most of the time, and only slight creeped into positive territory. I think I made half a dozen bets at higher than minimum. *sigh*

I wonder if the other players at the table saw my eyes bug out or the drool running down my chin when she stuck that cut card in 24 cards from the back of the pack. :laugh:

Yeah, I've seen that happen a few times up in CT, and also in AC. That's how you make your money, get that pen. In a S17 DAS game, you have an advantage at a neutral count when you are down to a deck or less.

 

[Bojack1]

Yeah, I've seen that happen a few times up in CT, and also in AC. That's how you make your money, get that pen. In a S17 DAS game, you have an advantage at a neutral count when you are down to a deck or less.

Of course any mistakes in counting would indeed sway the advantage back to the house in such a situation. Still a good game, just not as good anymore if you don't count error free.

 

[Sonny]

Of course your mistakes in counting would indeed sway the advantage back to the house in such a situation.

I would think that even a simple counting error that deep in the shoe would be fairly significant. I mean, if you’re off by 1 after the first deck of a 6D shoe then your mistake is only costing you 1/5 of a TC. After 5 decks are out that same error is now costing you a full TC – enough to throw off your betting strategy. You might be betting 8 units when you should only be betting 4! Although random mistakes will cancel out over time, the fact that you’re betting twice as much as you should will wreak havoc on your ROR. If you make too many “+1 mistakes“ you might not make it long enough for your errors to even out. If you make too many “-1 mistakes” you might not be earning much money. In that sense, finding a game with deep penetration may actually hurt the card counter more!

-Sonny-

 

[Canceler]

Maybe gonna look like a fool here, but...

In a S17 DAS game, you have an advantage at a neutral count when you are down to a deck or less.

Is this right? I know we've had long discussions about whether one deck remaining of a shoe was the same as single deck, and we concluded that it was not. Or am I totally not understanding something here?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Is this right? I know we've had long discussions about whether one deck remaining of a shoe was the same as single deck, and we concluded that it was not. Or am I totally not understanding something here?

Only in a neutral count. Integrated over the probability distribution of all possible counts for the remaining deck, the advantage is the same as for the original shoe.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Of course any mistakes in counting would indeed sway the advantage back to the house in such a situation. Still a good game, just not as good anymore if you don't count error free.

No, as usual, that's inaccurate. The advantage is the advantage even when no one is counting.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I would think that even a simple counting error that deep in the shoe would be fairly significant. I mean, if you’re off by 1 after the first deck of a 6D shoe then your mistake is only costing you 1/5 of a TC. After 5 decks are out that same error is now costing you a full TC – enough to throw off your betting strategy. You might be betting 8 units when you should only be betting 4! Although random mistakes will cancel out over time, the fact that you’re betting twice as much as you should will wreak havoc on your ROR. If you make too many “+1 mistakes“ you might not make it long enough for your errors to even out. If you make too many “-1 mistakes” you might not be earning much money. In that sense, finding a game with deep penetration may actually hurt the card counter more!

-Sonny-

It shouldn't hurt that much, assuming the mistakes really are random and not caused by a psychological eagerness to adjust the bet based on your desire to put out either a large or a small bet. Because the cards are random too, and which of the remaining cards we happen to get dealt on the next round are random and that's all that really matters when bet sizing. The increased EV of playing a deeply-dealt game should more than make up for the additional volatility.

Just to put it in perspective, suppose you are playing a deeply-dealt SD game and as in most games the dealer doesn't show you the burn card. Congratulations, you've just missed a card! And you've been doing it on every deck! If it was one of those games where they deal down to the last card you will really wish you had seen it, but in an ordinary game seeing or not seeing the burn card is minor enough that it's usually not worth it to bring suspicion on yourself by asking to see it.

Another way of looking at it, is an RPC player watches a High-Low player, and sees the guy not only missing all the 7's, but counting the 2 as if it was a 5??? How can he make any money that way, being such a lousy counter? :grin: Observed by someone using a multi-level, multi-parameter count the High-Low player appears to be making tons of errors, but in reality he's doing just fine, because relative to the actual advantage of the hand, the "errors" are random.

 

[Bojack1]

No, as usual, that's inaccurate. The advantage is the advantage even when no one is counting.

Oh, I must have misunderstood your thinking in another thread. In that one you stated that counting errors evaluate to little more than decreased penetration. So I went with that train of thought to believe that if an error prone counter such as yourself (you have stated yourself that you have no problem with making mistakes) gets a game with 1 deck penetration, you really won't be getting the advantage of the good penetration due to the fact that counting mistakes have robbed you of it. Am I wrong in my thinking, or is it just a case of misinterpreted semantics on what advantage is? By the way if your mistakes don't allow you to take advantage of 1 deck penetration because you are now technically playing with worse penetration, say 1 1/4 decks, do you still have an advantage over the house at a neutral count seeing you will never play down to the 1 deck?