Newbie looking for some (AC) advice please!!

[sruly2020]

Hi guys, let me introduce myself, if anyone really cares. First let me say that of all the blackjack sites on the web, I find this one to have the best (knowledgeable and helpful) members of any. I know im not the most eloquent or humorous writer, so I appreciate it if you can hang in there. I recently turned 21, and had my first casino experience in Sydney,Australia; it was a pretty bad experience. I played blackjack there and ended up losing around $1,000 Australian. When I was already down, I remembered hearing something about "counting cards" so I did a little research. Armed with my new information, I went back to the casino determined to make my money back. Instead, I just dug myself a deeper hole. Only later did I realize that they used those damn CSMs and my idiotic "counting" was all for naught. When I came back to the good ole US of A, I was even more determined to seriously study card counting, especially since I don't live too far from Atlantic City. So I learned the hi-lo method and pretty soon was able to count down a deck accurately in around 25-30 seconds. I took out some books from the library and realized that the actual counting is just a small percentage of what it takes to be successful, so I researched everything else I could find and ordered some books, too. I've read Arnold Snyder's big book of blackjack, and blackbelt in blackjack, the latter of which I found quite enlightening. I'm really looking forward to testing myself, and though I realize I am going to need some casino practice, I have a trip planned to AC in 2 weeks with a friend, and plan to play at the tropicana and/or borgata (ive read that they have the best games) which brings me to ask a few questions:

1- what is the best strategy to approach an AC game with- is it better to backcount and wong in (assuming they allow MSE) or should i just try to find a good table and play it out there?

2- How can one backcount and wong without immediately being labeled as a counter? isnt it obvious?

3- How can I know what the penetration of a certain table/dealer is without sitting down and seeing it? And if i do that and it's no good, wouldn't it be suspicious if I got up and left every time it wasn't favorable?

4- I plan to play at the $10 tables (I'll bring 150x that, as suggested in blackbelt)..Do i need any camouflage at all, or are my tiny bets of no concern to the casino?

Answers to any or all of my questions and any general advise to a new counter would be VERY VERY APPRECIATED!! Thanks so much guys and gals..

Jonathan

 

[SleightOfHand]

1- what is the best strategy to approach an AC game with- is it better to backcount and wong in (assuming they allow MSE) or should i just try to find a good table and play it out there?

Backcounting and wonging will always produce better results than play all given that the other parameters are the same. It will allow a smaller required bankroll and/or a smaller RoR.

2- How can one backcount and wong without immediately being labeled as a counter? isnt it obvious?

Backcounting is an art that can not only give you a stronger game, but if done well, will also provide cover, as a counter usually does not enter a game that is already in progress. It is not as obvious as you may think, since other gamblers also like to watch for tables/dealers that are hot/cold and leave when they are in a "losing streak."

3- How can I know what the penetration of a certain table/dealer is without sitting down and seeing it? And if i do that and it's no good, wouldn't it be suspicious if I got up and left every time it wasn't favorable?

You can try and see the cut card in the shoe if possible. If you can't see it, you can just stand back and wait for the shuffle to see where the cut card is going. Dealers are usually consistent with pen. If you notice they give bad pen, stay away from them.

4- I plan to play at the $10 tables (I'll bring 150x that, as suggested in blackbelt)..Do i need any camouflage at all, or are my tiny bets of no concern to the casino?

If you have a max bet of <$100, don't worry about heat.

Answers to any or all of my questions and any general advise to a new counter would be VERY VERY APPRECIATED!! Thanks so much guys and gals..

Jonathan

Anonymity is important especially in a public forum. Try to keep your real info out of it

 

[shadroch]

Hi guys, let me introduce myself, if anyone really cares. First let me say that of all the blackjack sites on the web, I find this one to have the best (knowledgeable and helpful) members of any. I know im not the most eloquent or humorous writer, so I appreciate it if you can hang in there. I recently turned 21, and had my first casino experience in Sydney,Australia; it was a pretty bad experience. I played blackjack there and ended up losing around $1,000 Australian. When I was already down, I remembered hearing something about "counting cards" so I did a little research. Armed with my new information, I went back to the casino determined to make my money back. Instead, I just dug myself a deeper hole. Only later did I realize that they used those damn CSMs and my idiotic "counting" was all for naught. When I came back to the good ole US of A, I was even more determined to seriously study card counting, especially since I don't live too far from Atlantic City. So I learned the hi-lo method and pretty soon was able to count down a deck accurately in around 25-30 seconds. I took out some books from the library and realized that the actual counting is just a small percentage of what it takes to be successful, so I researched everything else I could find and ordered some books, too. I've read Arnold Snyder's big book of blackjack, and blackbelt in blackjack, the latter of which I found quite enlightening. I'm really looking forward to testing myself, and though I realize I am going to need some casino practice, I have a trip planned to AC in 2 weeks with a friend, and plan to play at the tropicana and/or borgata (ive read that they have the best games) which brings me to ask a few questions:

1- what is the best strategy to approach an AC game with- is it better to backcount and wong in (assuming they allow MSE) or should i just try to find a good table and play it out there?

2- How can one backcount and wong without immediately being labeled as a counter? isnt it obvious?

3- How can I know what the penetration of a certain table/dealer is without sitting down and seeing it? And if i do that and it's no good, wouldn't it be suspicious if I got up and left every time it wasn't favorable?

4- I plan to play at the $10 tables (I'll bring 150x that, as suggested in blackbelt)..Do i need any camouflage at all, or are my tiny bets of no concern to the casino?

Answers to any or all of my questions and any general advise to a new counter would be VERY VERY APPRECIATED!! Thanks so much guys and gals..

Jonathan

1) How would you find a good table? What signs are you looking for?
2) It takes practice. Keep in mind 95% of dealers don't care if you are counting. Learn to keep one eye on the cards, one eye on the pitboss, and one eye on a tv or anything else that gives you a reson to be standing by the table.
3) By standing up and watching it. See #2. Suspicious to whom? Who will know what the count is when you get up? Perhaps the dealer, who doesn't care. Perhaps the pitboss, but you left his jurisdiction and are not a threat to him and his little kingdom. The eye in the sky? Not very likely, until you have hurt them and played many many hours.
4) Unless you are spreading something like one hand of $10 to two hands of $250, I'd say no.

 

[sruly2020]

thanks for the replies.. ya sleight-pretty stupid throwing a name out there-good thing its not a very unique name, but ill try and be more careful from now on.. shadroch- a good table for me would be one that's not too crowded, good penetration and a somewhat friendly dealer so I can make small talk with them..(an attractive girl to ogle wouldn't hurt either..or willl it.. ) damn all this talk of penetration is getting to my immature head.. moving on..

I'm also a bit confused about betting spreads- if i use hi-lo, what's a good true count to wong in on, and what kind of bet spread would u guys recommend for my limited bankroll? thanks again..

marc (to confuse the maybe casino personnel on here)

 

[21forme]

Try to avoid the H17 games in AC. If you're wonging in, come in at TC +1 for S17, +2 at H17.

If the count is negative after the first deck, leave and find another table to backcount. However, this depends on how crowded the casino is. Lately, many of the AC casinos have kept a minimum of tables open (to save on the big salaries they pay dealers) so it's been tough to find a seat. In crowded conditions, you may need to stay put in the cahir, or not play at all.

When backcounting, don't stare at the cards and don't move your lips. A few weeks ago, my wife and I were walking through an AC casino and she said to me "look at that kid backcounting." She doesn't play

 

[The Prince of PW]

I'M LOOKING TO PLAY IN AC as well. I'd like to play at Hilton or Bally's, $25 min and stand on 17, 6 deck. Will I be able to find these tables at these casinos?

 

[FLASH1296]

I'M LOOKING TO PLAY IN AC as well. I'd like to play at Hilton or Bally's, $25 min and stand on 17, 6 deck. Will I be able to find these tables at these casinos?

You will find 6 deck play for $25 with S17 at The Hilton,
but you must know where to find them, as they are ONLY in the one pit
closest to the High Limit Room.

If you count cards there do not spread your bets too aggressively.

Next to The Hilton is The Tropicana where ALL games are S17 and all are Six Decks.

You can also find what you are looking for at Trump Plaza and The Borgata.

Ballys is one of the worst choices in A.C.

How did you come to settle on asking about Ballys and The Hilton?

R.S.V.P.

 

[The Prince of PW]

I actually like the Hilton. Bally's is not that big of a deal. But anywhere I can find those games (S17, 6 deck) I'll be happy as that's how I've been practicing.

 

[callipygian]

How can one backcount and wong without immediately being labeled as a counter? isnt it obvious?

It can be painfully obvious if done improperly or in the wrong scenarios.

The fundamental question you need to ask yourself whether your current playing situation is actually amenable to backcounting or Wonging. It's a good strategy for some people some of the time, but not everyone all the time. Here are some point I frequently bring up; it's not comprehensive but gives you an idea of what to consider.

- If there's no mid-shoe entry, obviously, backcounting (by yourself, at least) is pretty worthless. The probability you'll get to enter is the probability that everyone gets up and leaves at the same time. I'm sure there's a team strategy about this.

- If the tables are too crowded, likewise, you'll have a tough time getting a seat when the count does go up, and you'll also be playing very few hands when you do get a seat. The value of Wonging in goes way down.

- If the tables aren't crowded enough, the value of Wonging in also goes way down as well! Remember, someone needs to be playing for you to backcount, and milling around empty tables is a sure way to get noticed fast.

- If there's only one playable game in the area (for example, one table with great rules and the rest of the tables being 6:5), the value of Wonging in or out goes way down. When you leave your table, you want to be able to find another one very quickly.

- If there's a way you can backcount without standing by the blackjack table, that's great. For example, backcounting blackjack while pretending to be watching a roulette game is a great way to Wong in.

- You have to be able to use a variety of natural excuses to leave the table at bad counts. Some common ones: going to the bathroom, talking on your cell phone, taking a smoke break. Take some time to just observe people at the tables and use the same excuses (and mannerisms).

 

[Thunder]

You will find 6 deck play for $25 with S17 at The Hilton,
but you must know where to find them, as they are ONLY in the one pit
closest to the High Limit Room.

If you count cards there do not spread your bets too aggressively.

Next to The Hilton is The Tropicana where ALL games are S17 and all are Six Decks.

You can also find what you are looking for at Trump Plaza and The Borgata.

Ballys is one of the worst choices in A.C.

How did you come to settle on asking about Ballys and The Hilton?

R.S.V.P.

Actually Flash, they're not all 6 decks at the Tropicana.

 

[FLASH1296]

Picky. Picky.

"Actually Flash, they're not all 6 decks at the Tropicana."

Yes, The Tropicana has a pit of 4 deck games.

I could have been clearer by saying "6 decks or less".