I'm surprised nobody posted this yet:
http://pokergrump.blogspot.com/2009/02/i-got-backroomed-by-casino-security.html
-Sonny-
http://pokergrump.blogspot.com/2009/02/i-got-backroomed-by-casino-security.html
-Sonny-
Poker Player Backroomed
- Thread starter Sonny
- Start date
I don't want to sound like an ass, but I sympathize a lot with the casino in this case. It's overwhelmingly likely that he accidentally shot, or shot something close to a very sensitive part of surveillance (like an unmarked power box which feeds the cameras).
Assuming his camera was digital, he could have shown the guard the photos he was taking without surrendering possession of the camera to the guard; a request that the surveillance office look up his blog would have ended the confrontation in 30 seconds.
I'm really surprised by the fact that more gamblers aren't surprised at the proportional lack of crime in a joint with thousands of dollars exchanging hands at any one time and/or people walking around with paychecks worth of cash in their wallets. Casino security deals with chip thieves, hookers, muggers, card markers, and check forgers on a daily basis, and people get this idea that they really have nothing better to do than hassle people they know are innocent.
Perhaps in three weeks I'll be sitting in a back room laughing at myself. :laugh:
Assuming his camera was digital, he could have shown the guard the photos he was taking without surrendering possession of the camera to the guard; a request that the surveillance office look up his blog would have ended the confrontation in 30 seconds.
I'm really surprised by the fact that more gamblers aren't surprised at the proportional lack of crime in a joint with thousands of dollars exchanging hands at any one time and/or people walking around with paychecks worth of cash in their wallets. Casino security deals with chip thieves, hookers, muggers, card markers, and check forgers on a daily basis, and people get this idea that they really have nothing better to do than hassle people they know are innocent.
Perhaps in three weeks I'll be sitting in a back room laughing at myself. :laugh:
I've seen security force persons to delete photos off their cameras before. It doesn't seem unreasonable, though legally you're not required to of course. Had he played along with their request I doubt he would lose his camera, nor would he have lost a joint to play in. I guess longevity in a place is of much greater concern to BJ players than to poker players.
-BW
-BW
clearly you've never been arrested.
the police aren't your friends. 'security' aren't your friends.
the best advice in these situations is to keep your mouth shut about the issue at hand and express multiple times that you did nothing wrong, you're being held against your will, in essence state the facts pertaining to your unlawful detention.
do not give statements, do not hand over evidence do not cooperate.
the police aren't your friends. 'security' aren't your friends.
the best advice in these situations is to keep your mouth shut about the issue at hand and express multiple times that you did nothing wrong, you're being held against your will, in essence state the facts pertaining to your unlawful detention.
do not give statements, do not hand over evidence do not cooperate.
You're right that I've never been arrested, but I've been asked to stop taking pictures without getting backroomed. I've also been asked by police at gunpoint what the hell I was doing, and I've denied police permission to search my car - all without being arrested.
I consider that as being a reason why I'm more qualified, not less qualified, to comment on the topic.
They don't need to be your friends. You just don't want to give them an excuse to be your enemy. Refusing to answer questions, while perfectly within your rights, is confrontational. Calling your lawyer, while perfectly within your rights, is confrontational.
This will certainly save you from being legally prosecuted, but it won't save you from being legally detained. The statutes are broad for a reason, and as much as you, I, or the ACLU objects to the practice, casinos (and police) will continue to detain people on flimsy suspicions of cheating.
What it comes down to is how much your time is worth. Are you willing to spend a few hours backroomed until the police clear you, or would you rather sacrifice a few rights and walk away immediately.
There's not going to be a monetary settlement in this case - remember, in order to win, a plantiff would have to prove that the casino had no reason to suspect illegal behavior. Even if those suspicions don't materialize, if the casino was well-justified to have them, they won't be held liable.
Think about the parallel to getting stopped by the cops on the freeway - if they ask for permission to search your car, you're more than within your rights to deny them. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that's the end of the confrontation and you get to drive away. The police can hold you there for a reasonable time (at least an hour) to get a K9 unit and sniff for drugs from the exterior. And when/if the canine unit doesn't find anything, you can't sue for false detention - all that's needed is reasonable suspicion, not ironclad proof, for detention. So if waiting around for an hour in the back of a squad car is worth the absolutely legal, principled point of holding on to the vestiges of our Fourth Amendment rights, by all means, thanks for taking one for the team.
I consider that as being a reason why I'm more qualified, not less qualified, to comment on the topic.
They don't need to be your friends. You just don't want to give them an excuse to be your enemy. Refusing to answer questions, while perfectly within your rights, is confrontational. Calling your lawyer, while perfectly within your rights, is confrontational.
This will certainly save you from being legally prosecuted, but it won't save you from being legally detained. The statutes are broad for a reason, and as much as you, I, or the ACLU objects to the practice, casinos (and police) will continue to detain people on flimsy suspicions of cheating.
What it comes down to is how much your time is worth. Are you willing to spend a few hours backroomed until the police clear you, or would you rather sacrifice a few rights and walk away immediately.
There's not going to be a monetary settlement in this case - remember, in order to win, a plantiff would have to prove that the casino had no reason to suspect illegal behavior. Even if those suspicions don't materialize, if the casino was well-justified to have them, they won't be held liable.
Think about the parallel to getting stopped by the cops on the freeway - if they ask for permission to search your car, you're more than within your rights to deny them. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that's the end of the confrontation and you get to drive away. The police can hold you there for a reasonable time (at least an hour) to get a K9 unit and sniff for drugs from the exterior. And when/if the canine unit doesn't find anything, you can't sue for false detention - all that's needed is reasonable suspicion, not ironclad proof, for detention. So if waiting around for an hour in the back of a squad car is worth the absolutely legal, principled point of holding on to the vestiges of our Fourth Amendment rights, by all means, thanks for taking one for the team.