Stand on a 3 card 16 vs a 10?

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Rmitch223

Member
#21
#21
I have been counting, but Im not really efficient with it yet. Its been fairly easy for me to run threw a deck and keep the count but at a full table its been hard for me to keep the count, but Im still practicing. Im interested in learning as much as I can as far as being a non-counter until i get it down where I can be confident that I have the right count at the table. Is there any books or DVD's you guys would suggest that have some good info that I could learn beyond basic strategy? I just finished the Big Book of Blackjack by Arnold Snyder, but im still wanting to learn more...lol...any suggestions?

And thanks for all replies in the this already! I really appreciate it.


Ryan
 
Sharky

Sharky

Well-Known Member
#22
#22
Rmitch223 said:
I have been counting, but Im not really efficient with it yet. Its been fairly easy for me to run threw a deck and keep the count but at a full table its been hard for me to keep the count...
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I am not impressed with how fast you can accurately run through a deck as that is not how I count at a table.

Try canceling rather than counting whenever possible. A BJ cancels a player's 4 & 5, 10 & 5 cancels itself,etc...and then only count what's left. Should speed things up for you.
 
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Renzey

Well-Known Member
#23
#23
Rmitch223 said:
Im interested in learning as much as I can as far as being a non-counter until i get it down where I can be confident that I have the right count at the table. Is there any books or DVD's you guys would suggest that have some good info that I could learn beyond basic strategy? Ryan
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Chapter 6 of Blackjack Bluebook II is entitled, "What comes after Basic Strategy?" It covers:

the "Magnificent 7 Hands":(7 hands that can be played a bit more efficiently than basic strategy thru comparing the number of "babies" on board vs. 10's).

"Hand Interaction": (capping off other players' doubles for less, going partners on other players' doubles that are not proper basic strategy but yet are still a favorite to win, taking part of their advantageous splits, pawning off part of your own disadvantageous splits, buying half of other players' hands that don't look like favorites but are, laying odds that the dealer won't bust when she shows a "bust card", etc.)

Hi Card/Lo Card Layouts: (recognizing when enough extra babies are on board to give you a betting advantage on the next round or two or three.)

Getting in Extra Hands: (spooking other players into sitting out or leaving the table thru unconventional betting/playing at those times when you've identified a low card layout.)

I suppose this probably amounts to a plug for the book, but Ryan did ask for it.
Ryan, the info in chapter 6 after all is said and done, will merely round out your knowledge and prowess of blackjack. It would be impractical to try to glean an outright edge at the game thru these techniques alone, unless you take them to their extremes. They will however, reduce a basic strategy player's disadvantage considerably.
 
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k_c

Well-Known Member
#26
#26
Hit/Stand vs Ten, 8 or fewer decks

(Dead link: http://www.bjstrat.net/Ten.htm) _I wrote this a few years ago and it is posted on my modest web site_. As far as I know it covers all correct hit/stand decisions for a dealer up card of ten for 8 or fewer decks.
 
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Rmitch223

Member
#27
#27
I guy from work has your book Renzey and is bringing it for me tomorrow, thanks for the info. Im sure ill read alot more than just chapter six. Anybody know of any good DVD's that there is alot to learn from just curious whats out thier.


Thanks,

Ryan
 
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Rmitch223

Member
#29
#29
That Dr Pepper rule is quite interesting as well. Good stuff! Even tho like you said in the book people at the table wonder what the hell I'm doing hitting a 12 against a 4 lol but its been working fairly well. Thanks again Renzey.


Ryan
 
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Renzey

Well-Known Member
#30
#30
Rmitch223 said:
That Dr Pepper rule is quite interesting as well. Good stuff! Even tho like you said in the book people at the table wonder what the hell I'm doing hitting a 12 against a 4 lol but its been working fairly well. Thanks again Renzey.


Ryan
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I have to tell a cute ploppy story that relates to this hand. Recently I was playing and had 12 against a 4 when the count was just a hair shy of neutral. I tapped for a hit and the man on my right, who held a stiff and had the largest bet up of the four of us, threw his arms out across the table shouting, "Hold it, hold it!" The dealer stopped with her hand on the card part way out of the lip of the shoe. The man continued, "What the H are you hittin' 12 into a 14 for? Go to the $10 tables if you're gonna play like that!" I continued to motion for the hit and the dealer dealt me a 7 to give me 19. The dealer did turn over a 10 in the hole, paused and pointed to my 7, silently affirming that if I don't hit, she makes 21. She then drew a 9 to bust.
I commented to the man, "Any second thoughts?" Not a peep did he utter and just kept his head down.
On the very next hand, the dealer dealt herself a 10-up blackjack. The man then erupted with a vengeance, "Yeah, she wouldn't a got that if you didn't hit that 12!". This was a true story. You just can't win with ploppies.
 
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Rmitch223

Member
#31
#31
Yeah thats a good one..lol I just hate getting crap from the other players when i use this strategy and bust and then they go off telling me that I shouldnt have done that against a 4 and that I need to learn basic strategy. but o well Im sticking with it.
 
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WRX

Well-Known Member
#32
#32
This question comes up periodically. I can't quote you the source, but in past discussions it came out that a rule that is darned close to composition-dependent perfect basic strategy is to stand on a three-or-more-card 16 vs. T, unless your hand contains more 6s than 5s. This is very simple to remember, and works for any number of decks. Of course, you can do better by using a count-based index strategy, or by looking at how many other 6s and 5s are in other players' hands. General-purpose single-parameter count systems (such as hi-lo, or any other that you might be using) are rather poor indicators for the 16 vs. T playing decision. A much better indicator is a 6s vs. 5s count.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#35
#35
Kaiser said:
I feel like I am missing something really simple here, but why exactly is this called the Dr. Pepper rule?
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It's from the an old Dr. Pepper logo that showed a clock with the numbers 10, 2, and 4 and a Dr. Pepper bottle cap also showing those numbers. Hit 10/2 vs 10 for S17 under 8 decks.



I remember it from my great, great grand daddy. :rolleyes:
 
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Kaiser

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
#37
#37
D'oh! I knew the rule (and use it) - I just didn't know where the name came from. I've even googled it a few times.

Thanks!
 
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neversplit5s

Active Member
#38
#38
acepembs said:
What would the verdict be on this if you played ENHC? Would it be better to not take the card on 16v10?
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When the dealer takes his/her second card does not affect hit/stand strategy, since the probability of how the hands will turn out is still the same. The fact that the dealer can still make a blackjack is irrelevant since you have an EV of -1.00 in that case regardless of whether you hit or stand.
 
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MangoJ

Well-Known Member
#39
#39
acepembs said:
What would the verdict be on this if you played ENHC? Would it be better to not take the card on 16v10?
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The only strategy changes in ENHC compared to hole card games are split and double down decisions.
The reason is, that you lose your initial bet on a dealers blackjack in any case, whether he will peek before your action, or draw a card after your action.

Double downs and splits are different in this respect, because you cannot double/split on a dealers blackjack in a peeked game as you get no action on your hand. Hence if you get action, you can rule out a dealers Blackjack.
On ENHC you have the chance of a dealers Blackjack, and your strategy for double and split must respect the potential loss of your additional bet (i.e. lowers double down and split EV considerably).

Play 16v10 on a ENHC the same as on a peeked game. Splitting 8-8 vs 10 is a different story though.
 
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swedesinger

New Member
#40
#40
Rmitch223 said:
Just curious what u guy's thoughts were on this. Had a few people mention it at the tables lately and have read a little bit about it on the internet. Is there a advantage to staying on a 3 card 16 vs a face/10 valued card? or should I always hit?


Thanks alot,
Ryan
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Hello and thanks for a good webpage! I am just a hobbygambler who´ve been wondering about that too a lot lately, especially since I noticed a geographical difference! I usually gamble in Stockholm where I live, but have also been gambling at the Dragonara in Malta, Estoril casino in Portugal and the Playa Americas casino, Tenerife. Back home, everyone thinks you definitely have to draw a card om all 16´s versus dealer´s 10. If you don´t they all shake their heads and roll their eyes. In Malta and Tenerife you could see both theories being used, but in Portugal they all stand on all 16´s versus dealer 10, even the 2 card ones...... so when I drew a card on 16 versus dealer 10 they all shook their heads and rolled their eyes and murmured "noooooo"! So that week I just stood on all 16´s just to avoid trouble at the table....
Have a nice day / swedesinger
 
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