When it works...

rukus

Well-Known Member
i appreciate you all standing up for the OP. maybe he is playing for fun. fine. maybe i should stick to only responding to posts in the "card counting" forum. fine. OP, you never posted you were playing only for fun in your original post, only that you were trying to show that it is nice when card counting "works". stop being defensive and take constructive criticism (even if i dont give it out so nicely :devil:). also OP, i will not post my profits over these boards, there are 1-2 ppl on these boards who know it and know i am serious about this game. i have to prove myself to no one but myself.

i do apologize for the tough "love", but i still will not back down and support any mediocre play. it is not you, but these days there is too much support on these boards for mediocrity, and maybe the posts supporting you were the last straw for me. i have mostly withdrawn from constant posting here due to this attitude of praising/supporting mediocrity. and that is fine, that is what people come here to do, i will not argue. i will stay to some of the other sections or other sites altogether anyway.

as for whoever said i was a bitter old man, you are wrong on both counts. i am neither old nor bitter (and have been riding all time highs for the last 3 months and couldnt be happier). i am only bitter at the attitudes on these boards that has come about in the last 6 months or so. i think authors/players like bryce carlson would be incensed to read posts here sometimes, but i do read them for entertainment and to learn a few things in other threads/sections.

finally, there IS indeed a difference though between your "luck" and mine despite whatever anyone says. yours will mask your current style of play for your entire playing career if you continue on that same style. my simple "1-2% advantage" will manifest itself above any variance in about 9x100 = 900 hours max, much more likely less than that, as that is about 9N0 at only 100 hands per hour and i play more hands per hour than that. we both are subject to the same luck for any given session, but in the long run, your luck is worse than mine :devil:

i wish you better luck in the future,
"bitter old" rukus

ps - sage, plug in the rule set i posted into cvcx online and tell me the N0 you see in terms of hands. divide by 50 and there is 3400 hours...

pps - blackjacker 2, check my past recent comments in other threads for non "bitter" help offered to others. its good you come in here making more assumptions than your 7 posts should allow. i can delete my post under "zen count" thread explaining the benefits of 1d tc conversion over 1/4d tc conversion if you would like to take a crack at it in a more "helpful" and peaceful manner...
 
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hawkeye

Well-Known Member
All I said in my original post was that when the count got good I ramped up to my max bet.

So I guess you're right rukus, everyone should ignore that :confused:

I play for fun. I play all sorts of card games for fun, have since I was a kid. I like to win at blackjack, that's why I'm trying to up my skill level, but if I didn't have fun I wouldn't play at all. Like I said, if you really make a living (I'm talking more than $100k/yr) solely playing blackjack then more power to you, and I'm truly jealous. Otherwise, you do sound bitter man.


EasyRhino,
I am playing the smallest minimum bet I can find. I understand what you mean about wonging, I've tried a bit but I don't have enough hours to spend in a casino to be that picky. But you're right, that would help me build a bigger BR quicker than my current method.
The part about the shoes staying high wasn't a fluke, it was just that after the count got high things were coming out pretty even each hand so the count wasn't going up or down too much. It was just my day to be the guy getting most of the 20's and blackjacks in a good count and the other people pulled the 13's and 14's. They would balance out my cards, and when it came around to the next hand the count would still be good. It didn't last very long, but I capitalized when it did. Thanks for the tip about wonging and running the sims, that is helpful criticism done correctly, pointing out ways to improve my game without calling me an idiot.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
rukus said:
ihave been riding all time highs for the last 3 months and couldnt be happier
Unrelated to the original topic, but you're braced for the inevitable anguish, right? Because it's going to hurt, and it's going to hurt bad.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
rukus said:
.....ps - sage, plug in the rule set i posted into cvcx online and tell me the N0 you see in terms of hands. divide by 50 and there is 3400 hours...
......
..
ok. i was using some sims from cvcx (can't even remmember exactly which) guessing what game he might have played. lol i don't think we know exactly what game hawkeye was playing or what his min bet was? using differant sims, games your gonna get differant results. i think i divided by 60 hands/hr.
sufficeint it to say it would be a long time to N0.
 

Buzzer

Member
Communication

hawkeye said:
All I said in my original post was that when the count got good I ramped up to my max bet.

So I guess you're right rukus, everyone should ignore that :confused:

I play for fun. I play all sorts of card games for fun, have since I was a kid. I like to win at blackjack, that's why I'm trying to up my skill level, but if I didn't have fun I wouldn't play at all. Like I said, if you really make a living (I'm talking more than $100k/yr) solely playing blackjack then more power to you, and I'm truly jealous. Otherwise, you do sound bitter man.
The tone of many replies is extremely critical. I haven't posted anything on my style of play in a long time. Most replies were extremely critical and guaranteed my complete ruin. Meanwhile my winnings have doubled.

I did use a big chunk of my bankroll to buy a new car. If I lose the balance of my bankroll maybe I'll quit. Doubt it though - I love this game.

I must admit, however, that I did receive some good advice. In particular, keep playing even though you're ahead for the trip. This advice helped me achieve my best day ever. That does not mean you keep playing through negative counts - switch tables.

A lot of the advice here is really good, but telling people they're idiots only alienates them.

When I first started playing I found that the basic strategy card really helped me win more often. Given the success of that, I decided to read some books. The books helped even more. Some positive variance in my first attempts at high limit play gave me a nice bankroll courtesy of the house.

I've digressed a bit, my point here is that we are all at different stages of learning. Our goals differ, some aspire to become professionals, others to develop their hobby. We are all here to learn more and share experiences, both good and bad. To accomplish this we need to promote open communication, which means we show respect for others when we post.




hawkeye said:
EasyRhino,
I am playing the smallest minimum bet I can find. I understand what you mean about wonging, I've tried a bit but I don't have enough hours to spend in a casino to be that picky.
It's not that hard to switch tables. If the casino is really crowded try playing during off times. Wonging out is a great tool, and this game is too tight not to use all advantages.
 

InPlay

Banned
sagefr0g said:
..
ok. i was using some sims from cvcx (can't even remmember exactly which) guessing what game he might have played. lol i don't think we know exactly what game hawkeye was playing or what his min bet was? using differant sims, games your gonna get differant results. i think i divided by 60 hands/hr.
sufficeint it to say it would be a long time to N0.

Forget sims. He said he was playing for fun. Have you not ever played a game without running a sim ? Do you run a sim on everything in your life ? Fun Fun Fun thats what it is about not SIm SIm Sim.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
it's a paradox

InPlay said:
Forget sims.
why? just because we wash the baby and the bath water is dirty you wanna throw out the basin we washed the baby in and the unused soap too?
here's what i think is that sims and Rukus with his knowledge, capability and the spirit he brings to the table are a great thing. just me for example i just know that with out sims and posters and authors of Rukus ilk that i'd never know anything worth while when it came to blackjack.
He said he was playing for fun.
exactly and Rukus has the contention that the board is slipping into mediocrity. there is this thing that finally hit me with respect to all this gambling stuff that i can only describe as philosophical maturity. to where one can come from a lot of differant philosophical points of referance. it's like ok go from one extreme to another, a martingale player or even a free wheeling gambler is gonna have a bunch of winners then hit that big loser and it's all over but the moanin and the groanin but suprise, suprise this can happen to an AP playing like a robot as well. the differance being the AP has better odds than the martingale player or a free wheeling gambler. but the point is either player can have philosophical and intellectual blinders on that makes one just as vulnerable and silly as the other. the philosophical maturity comes in where you know all that and you find a way to remove as much dullness and misery from the pursuit as one can while maximizing ones payoffs for small risks and minimizing ones loss's for big risks. point being take the philosophical blinders off and you see the world in a whole new light and be careful, very, very careful it's a dangerous world for the uninitiated, gullable and unthinking.
so but this site could be just a bunch of math nerds a few of those that makes millions of dollars or it could be just a bunch of wild ass gamblers but really i can't see how it would profit much with out being the really mix that it is.
Have you not ever played a game without running a sim ?
yes, but not many. i like to have an idea of what my odds are if i was the best math nerd player in the world. get an idea of how much wiggle room i have and then go out and push my luck between those lines.
Do you run a sim on everything in your life ?
that definitely wouldn't work. probably a lot of our problems (example sub-prime mortgage mess) comes as a result of some high muckity mucks trying to do just that.
Fun Fun Fun thats what it is about not SIm SIm Sim.
sure if you want:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=96640&postcount=73
but sims and math nerds are invaluable in the attainment of that fun. and if your nerdy enough even the sims and math can be fun.
 

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
I agree sagefr0g, and thanks for the comments.

I think I represent a very good middle ground of people who play BJ and count. I'm not a pro, and I don't get out all the time. I don't get to wong all the time because I don't have the hours to do it, and I go to the casino with other people. So if I look for a table with a good count everyone else might be ready to leave before I find one. I'd rather sit at the table, use the skills I have, and have fun while utilizing counting, indexes, bet spread, etc.

I think that's where a lot of people are at. The day I stop having fun at BJ I'll stop. I still have fun when I lose, I spend time thinking about where I messed up and sometimes just realize that I played correctly, things just didn't fall right.

I do have problems though when I say something like that, "I played correctly", and the immediate response is that since I was not wonging and not playing a DD game with a great pen and not playing with a huge BR then I was automatically doing something that was "a waste of time and money" because that's inherently not true. I was playing the best game I could find at the time using all the skills I've learned.

I agree, playing ideal games is best, but who has the time to only play perfect games? I'll bet not a lot of people here do.
 

InPlay

Banned
sagefr0g


Let me tell you one thing and it will be the truth believe it or not. I have been playing BJ for 8 years and I have never run a sim in my life. First year was just BS then after that I learned to count. I have used Hi-Lo count for a couple of years but I got away from that because of deck estimation and true count conversion. I went to the Kiss III count because of easy of use and not much difference in results they say. For having never run a sim in 8 years of play I am $47,000 ahead of the man. By any means I am not stupid I know the game and am not going to sit down in a 6 deck game where 2 decks are cut off or a 2 deck game with 50% being dealt. My eye is still pretty keen. I still know how to make money. You see I have been on the hustle for most of my life and if you don't have the instinct or the nerves to make money you will fail. People can run all the sims they want but if they don't have the nerve to play what is the use of a sim.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
you stold my line.... i'm not stupid.

InPlay said:
sagefr0g
.... My eye is still pretty keen. I still know how to make money. You see I have been on the hustle for most of my life ......
lol reminds me of one of my old boss's used to say, "i been livin on the edge all my life" :devil:

....and if you don't have the instinct or the nerves to make money you will fail.
yup, you gotta have guts and be scared half to death all at the same time!
like my fuzzy little friend in the link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

oh and don't you dare even lose that 47 grand :joker::whip:
 

InPlay

Banned
sagefr0g said:
lol reminds me of one of my old boss's used to say, "i been livin on the edge all my life" :devil:


yup, you gotta have guts and be scared half to death all at the same time!
like my fuzzy little friend in the link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrTiP4ZIUfI

oh and don't you dare even lose that 47 grand :joker::whip:

i don't but plan on losing it but then you never know what life will bring. As long as I am having FUN I am happy. Thanks for the encourageing words and words of wisdom. :)
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
EasyRhino said:
Unrelated to the original topic, but you're braced for the inevitable anguish, right? Because it's going to hurt, and it's going to hurt bad.
Easy, you gotta lay off reading Revelations right before you post. It gives me the willies. :eek::eek:
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
I'm only doomsaying because it's warranted.

Being at a peak bankroll for any stretch of time can be a very dislodging experience, leading one to think that one is invincible. So spending several months in the cellar gets even tougher.
 

SPX

Well-Known Member
bj bob said:
It's referred to either way, but to avoid any confusion..."Apocalypse".
Well I'd bet you a green chip you'll never find it in a Bible as "Revelations."

But you're right. We'll call it the "Apocalypse of John" and everyone will understand.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
hawkeye said:
I think I represent a very good middle ground of people who play BJ and count. I'm not a pro, and I don't get out all the time...
Hi Hawkeye

I think I understand where you're coming from which is great. Nothing at all wrong with what you are doing. No one wants to take the joy of playing the game from you.

I think all that rukus meant was that it never hurts to know, as best you can, what to expect from your money for the game and spread and when you bet how much when, how you choose to play it, play-all or not etc, and roll with what risk you are choosing to play with etc.

Sometimes, "playing correctly" and "betting correctly" can lead to different conclusions lol. I think that's all he meant - having one without the other can be dangerous sometimes lol.

Nothing wrong with getting a handle on that as best you can either for the game you have chosen to play, even if it's true, which it probably always is like you say lol, that there are "better" games out there, is there?

Now don't get all mad at me too :)
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
InPlay said:
For having never run a sim in 8 years of play I am $47,000 ahead of the man.
Don't get me wrong - I'm happy for you.

I thought you were a biggish bettor? No?

$500 avg/month for 8 years?

Hopefully, right on EV lol.
 

InPlay

Banned
Kasi said:
Don't get me wrong - I'm happy for you.

I thought you were a biggish bettor? No?

$500 avg/month for 8 years?

Hopefully, right on EV lol.
A spread of anywhere from $50 to $500 or $25 to $300 depending on the game min. Takes what the numbers say but they don't tell you the whole story. I had a personal losing streak of 21 months burning a good part of the bankroll but also a have had months where I had won 10x the norm. I guess thats what you would call variance, or good or bad luck.
 

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
Kasi,

I gotcha. Maybe that's what rukus meant, but you said it in a more reasonable way.

I just think it's odd, and rude, for anyone to automatically discount how I played, call my game stupid, and say it was all luck.

I know the win was way above expected variance, but my last few times out before that they were all way below expected variance. That's all I meant by the post in the first place, that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't (because luck has a lot to do with it) but it's sure great when it does work.

I didn't get the same impression from rukus's posts as yours, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

And no, there are not any better games that are close to me. Maybe in Vegas, but the place I'm talking about is about $3 of gas round trip away from me, so it's the best game around. And rukus said it was a waste of time and money, I don't quite agree.
 
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