New to counting, my story
- Thread starter Drake7
- Start date
I gotta say, I completely agree with Bosox. While Nightshifter's posts are difficult to read (I suspect that is a result of posting from his phone), I want to read everything he has to say. At first I was a little hesitent about Nightshifter. As time goes on, I am finding him more and more credible .
The phrase "the counter would unknowingly be betting into a false count" strikes me as just the kind of terminology the casino industry would use, as they "scheme" against us.
The phrase "the counter would unknowingly be betting into a false count" strikes me as just the kind of terminology the casino industry would use, as they "scheme" against us.
Question for Nightshifter. I know of several casinos where they don't wash the cards. They just shuffle them and deal. Most of the time it starts off really bad. Once in a while it might start off good. Is there a reason they don't wash the cards. If the table starts dumping they will change the cards and almost all of the time the table is worse off after they change the cards.
Nightshifter, thanks for the answer. The one thing I do possess is very strong instincts and will recognize when something is not right. I always watch a shuffle closely to see if there is anything obvious out of the ordinary. I now only play part-time but have many years of experience to reflect on.
Nightshifter, do you yourself have any factual knowledge, other than sample sizes that may be too small and are considered by some as speculating that these type of machines has been used dishonestly?
PS: Be careful how you answer the question as we have a snake in the grass lying in wait to condemn anyone who cannot fully back up his words.
PS: Be careful how you answer the question as we have a snake in the grass lying in wait to condemn anyone who cannot fully back up his words.
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If the cards are in a predetermined order e.g., new deck order or an order specifically set by the house, not only will this wash away a deck that becomes mathematically random percentage wise (meaning a 10 value card will fall ~ within every 3-4 cards on average) but keep the table in a negative bias against the BS/AP player. Now, I don't mean negative bias as in a negative TC, but keeping the cards in groups that subvert BS thus favoring the house. Some casinos don't and will not show you the cards when they bring out new decks or open another table.... Not that all the cards aren't there or they're gaffed with extra low cards, but are grouped in a way that work in conjunction with the ASM to prolong this subversion to the BS/AP players. Now this doesn't happen on every table, but it happens more often when the house is busy -- usually on weekends. That's when they are able to rake in the most money with the least effort. I know because I looked at them myself when in actuality, the dealer is not suppose to do that. Rather than some cards being randomly scattered around 6-8 decks, they are grouped together. For instance A,A,A,5,5,5,5,A,A,A,2,2,2,4,4,A … anyone can see that's not normal and if the ASM is bricking the decks... LOOK OUT! 
Again, this is all based on certain ASMs that the casino is using. As you all know already, there are different types of ASMs and different ways of doing such things. I remember a pit boss telling me, "...that's one way of doing it, although that's the old way..." in the context of technology which means not so long ago
Again, this is all based on certain ASMs that the casino is using. As you all know already, there are different types of ASMs and different ways of doing such things. I remember a pit boss telling me, "...that's one way of doing it, although that's the old way..." in the context of technology which means not so long ago
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Nightshifter, on another site that I participate on there has been some discussion of your posts. Someone raised a question regarding this particular statement. Can you clarify what you are saying here? You think a hand shuffle is faster than the ASM, which shuffles during play, making the new cards immediately available?
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Yes... Don't forget, there's downtime when changing the decks with the ASM. Next time count the seconds that elapse from the last card put in the discard holder, to the first card dealt from the ready deck. If you're a fast shuffler, like a seasoned dealer usually is, you'll agree with what I've said. Now I"m putting aside other variables like having a conversation with the players, and stalling the game for whatever reason there may be....
You plug the shoe (if that's house rules) then press the button on the machine. You wait for it to come up (if there's no malfunction), switch decks, reset the machine and proceed. Maybe a green dealer would be slow, but as a seasoned dealer, I can X the decks, riffle, split then riffle once more in the same amount of time no problem... esp. single deck. Why would the casino spend a considerable amount of money to mount 2 Deck games, when the amount of time between changing decks using an ASM or hand shuffle is negligible? As for 6 - 8 decks games it's a plus (in more ways that one), but for single and 2 Deck? Legally speaking to deter shuffle trackers and to speed up post operations (like putting the cards in a new deck order which may or may not be done...) but also (off the record), putting the cards in a what they deem to be a "protective measure" to achieve a certain cadence that will subvert BS/AP playing upon their demand.
A little trick you can try (in some casinos) is accidently kick lose the plug that goes into the floor underneath the table (usually at third base), and this will cause the machine to malfunction so the dealer can't get the other decks. Usually the PB will declare a hand shuffle (unless he's wise about the plug) and this will break up any dealer biased patterns previously set forth by the ASM as long as the dealer isn't a sharpie
For those of you that don't know, and I'm sure most of you already do, is that there are sensors in the table for each betting square, that monitor your betting behavior.
You plug the shoe (if that's house rules) then press the button on the machine. You wait for it to come up (if there's no malfunction), switch decks, reset the machine and proceed. Maybe a green dealer would be slow, but as a seasoned dealer, I can X the decks, riffle, split then riffle once more in the same amount of time no problem... esp. single deck. Why would the casino spend a considerable amount of money to mount 2 Deck games, when the amount of time between changing decks using an ASM or hand shuffle is negligible? As for 6 - 8 decks games it's a plus (in more ways that one
), but for single and 2 Deck? Legally speaking to deter shuffle trackers and to speed up post operations (like putting the cards in a new deck order which may or may not be done...) but also (off the record), putting the cards in a what they deem to be a "protective measure" to achieve a certain cadence that will subvert BS/AP playing upon their demand.A little trick you can try (in some casinos) is accidently kick lose the plug that goes into the floor underneath the table (usually at third base), and this will cause the machine to malfunction so the dealer can't get the other decks. Usually the PB will declare a hand shuffle (unless he's wise about the plug) and this will break up any dealer biased patterns previously set forth by the ASM as long as the dealer isn't a sharpie
For those of you that don't know, and I'm sure most of you already do, is that there are sensors in the table for each betting square, that monitor your betting behavior.
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Pretty sure that part was OK, it was calculating and displaying (to the house) the player advantage during the game based on card composition that was blatantly illegal. I'm not sure it was ever officially adjudicated though. Mostly these machines fell out of favor for other reasons if I remember right.
But they were never very widespread, nor are they used very often now. Very few tables track chips automatically.
But they were never very widespread, nor are they used very often now. Very few tables track chips automatically.
This is true, but chip reading on the tables is making its way back into use in some casinos not only for rating players, but possibly to detect various types of cheating. For example, if a player decides to cap their bet after he received the cards, or use a counterfeit chip, this action would be detected. Speaking about down time, ask yourself another question. Why would a casino implement a system in which the dealer has to swipe a players card and type in the amount of your buy-in every time you sit down at a table. Doesn't this sort of contradict the use of ASMs to reduce down time when in fact they're just adding it back using this procedure?