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I am presently using the Zen count, working on memorizing indices, and am coming up against a logic problem that my mind can’t seem to wrap itself around. In the index section involving hard doubles, the counts are as low as -19 (11v7). As a secondary note I am using the True count method, not the 1/4 deck True edge. The translation of this index, 11v7 stand @TC>-19 makes very little sense to me in logical analysis. In doubling down, it makes sense to avoid doing so at lower counts when more face value cards have been outweighed by the smaller cards available. However, unless I’m totally out to lunch on this one, this index specifies that I double against a seven, only at times where it would be terribly unlikely for me to receive a strong hand making card as well as being relatively advantageous to the dealer in advantage, and to avoid doing so, when the cards would be favorable to double as well. Am I interpreting this wrong, or is my logic simply wrong?
Also, thank you so much Ken for keeping up and running this sight. The information here has been invaluable on my card counting training, and has made for a greater resource than most of the money I will probably make in recreational play.
Secondary note, if there are any Tarantino fans out there, there are 88 indices to memorize for the Zen Count. Made my day ^_^
Indexes can be confusing because they mean different things for different decisions. The 11v7 index is a doubling index, where you should hit when the count is below the index, and double when the count is at or above the index number. In this case, that means hit 11v7 if the count is -20 or worse, and double 11v7 if the count is -19 or better. That should make sense to you.
While this specific conversation is about the Zen count (and users of Hi-Lo are probably thinking “-19, what?!”), the same principle applies to any system’s indexes. If you aren’t sure how to interpret the different types of indexes, I recommend my explanation under the header “What are the different kinds of Index Numbers?” on this page: https://www.blackjackinfo.com/card/advanced-strategy-card-instructions/
Se sto giocando nello stile europeo, senza hole card e sono l'ultimo giocatore del tavolo. Ho 16 contro il 10 del banco. La strategia di base dice che si deve colpire. Ma nello stile europeo, la carta successiva può essere per il giocatore (se colpisce) o per il banco (se sta). Se il giocatore colpisce, le carte buone per il giocatore sono A, 2, 3, 4 e 5. Ma, tranne l'Asso, anche tutte le altre sono buone per il giocatore, poiché è possibile che faccia bust con la carta successiva. Lo stesso vale per un 15 contro un 10, o un 15 contro un 9, ecc.
La mia domanda: Devo cambiare la strategia di base in questo caso? In quali casi.
No, non cambiate la strategia di base in nessuna di queste situazioni. Decidendo di prendere o lasciare la carta successiva nella scarpa, non potete influire in alcun modo sul risultato atteso dal dealer. Vedetela in questo modo. Se il dealer bruciasse sempre una carta prima di pescare, farebbe qualche differenza? No. Giocate la vostra mano secondo la strategia di base. È tutto ciò che potete fare.
Che ne dici di chiedere a chi si lamenta: "Quindi pensi che il casinò abbia messo di proposito le carte del Blackjack nell'ordine giusto in modo che la TUA mano vincesse e che l'ALTRO abbia rovinato tutto per te? Wow, è così carino da parte del casinò cercare di darti dei soldi!".
I have a crazy question, I play, ” blackjack professional simulator “, by pepperdogsoft.com on my iPhone it is set for six decks, das, h17, surrender and da2 and at rather large true counts it tell me to double hard 12 v a dealer 2 as an I18 suggestion, I have won that a couple of times, but in all my reading I can’t find anywhere else that is suggested, have you ever heard of such a thing.? I thought you should hit 12 v 2 until true 3. Thanks
I’m not familiar with that product, but I can tell you that if an app EVER says to double a hard 12, you should delete that app immediately!
The only time you should ever double hard 12 is if the dealer accidentally reveals the card you will receive and you know it is a 9!
Seriously, I would question the accuracy of anything else this app tells you. That’s a horrible mistake.
You are correct in hitting 12v2 until the true count reaches +3. At that point and above, stand. Never ever double.
(The index varies slightly in one-deck and some two-deck games.)
what is ment by rare hand like ( a 3 or 9 3 ) i am playing a game call hit or stand witch it grades you on the correct amount of hands that you get correct so far these two hands do not double this is a rare hand
I’m not sure why anyone would describe hands like (Ace,3) and (9,3) as “rare”. You will draw each of those hands about once every 169 hands or so.
As to whether or not to double, (9,3) is a hard 12 and should certainly never be doubled. (Ace,3) should be doubled vs dealer 5 & 6. (Also against a dealer 4 in some 1 and 2 deck games.) See the Motore strategico for accurate advice for any game.
How do you know when to increase betting when I play for five or ten bucks I win when I go up I lose? any help on staggering my betting to improve winning percentages.
There is no magic betting system of staggering your bets that can or will work. If you want to beat the game, learn to count cards. Then you can raise your bet when you know you have an advantage. If that doesn’t appeal to you, the cheapest way to play the game is to flat-bet the minimum.
Giocare a blackjack puntando il minimo, tranne puntare sempre l'importo che si ha dietro (perdite progressive) con l'aspettativa che la vincita riporti a zero le perdite ogni volta. È possibile vincere due mani abbastanza spesso da avere un profitto netto alla fine della giornata di gioco?
Thanks! You may be right about the surrender issue, although it is possible that the surrender may only work if the dealer does NOT have blackjack. I’m not bothering to check because the new version is coming soon anyway, which is a complete rewrite.
Hello,
I think there is one issue in trainer program.
When is using late surrender with the dealer ace trainer first offers surrendering instead of insurance.
And again I continue to win.
May be there is a reason to imitate dealers shuffling, instead of mathematical random shuffling.
Make sure you are including the cards behind the cut card in your unseen decks. In your example, when we are halfway through six decks, that means 3 decks have been dealt, and 3 decks are still unseen. It doesn’t matter that many of the unseen cards will never be used because they are behind the cut card. You still use them in the calculation. So a running count of +20 would convert to a true count of +20/3, or +6.66. With the same true count one deck later (4 decks used, 2 unseen), the true count would by +20/2 = +10.
I am presently using the Zen count, working on memorizing indices, and am coming up against a logic problem that my mind can’t seem to wrap itself around. In the index section involving hard doubles, the counts are as low as -19 (11v7). As a secondary note I am using the True count method, not the 1/4 deck True edge. The translation of this index, 11v7 stand @TC>-19 makes very little sense to me in logical analysis. In doubling down, it makes sense to avoid doing so at lower counts when more face value cards have been outweighed by the smaller cards available. However, unless I’m totally out to lunch on this one, this index specifies that I double against a seven, only at times where it would be terribly unlikely for me to receive a strong hand making card as well as being relatively advantageous to the dealer in advantage, and to avoid doing so, when the cards would be favorable to double as well. Am I interpreting this wrong, or is my logic simply wrong?
Also, thank you so much Ken for keeping up and running this sight. The information here has been invaluable on my card counting training, and has made for a greater resource than most of the money I will probably make in recreational play.
Secondary note, if there are any Tarantino fans out there, there are 88 indices to memorize for the Zen Count. Made my day ^_^
http://blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm
Indexes can be confusing because they mean different things for different decisions. The 11v7 index is a doubling index, where you should hit when the count is below the index, and double when the count is at or above the index number. In this case, that means hit 11v7 if the count is -20 or worse, and double 11v7 if the count is -19 or better. That should make sense to you.
While this specific conversation is about the Zen count (and users of Hi-Lo are probably thinking “-19, what?!”), the same principle applies to any system’s indexes. If you aren’t sure how to interpret the different types of indexes, I recommend my explanation under the header “What are the different kinds of Index Numbers?” on this page: https://www.blackjackinfo.com/card/advanced-strategy-card-instructions/
Se sto giocando nello stile europeo, senza hole card e sono l'ultimo giocatore del tavolo. Ho 16 contro il 10 del banco. La strategia di base dice che si deve colpire. Ma nello stile europeo, la carta successiva può essere per il giocatore (se colpisce) o per il banco (se sta). Se il giocatore colpisce, le carte buone per il giocatore sono A, 2, 3, 4 e 5. Ma, tranne l'Asso, anche tutte le altre sono buone per il giocatore, poiché è possibile che faccia bust con la carta successiva. Lo stesso vale per un 15 contro un 10, o un 15 contro un 9, ecc.
La mia domanda: Devo cambiare la strategia di base in questo caso? In quali casi.
No, non cambiate la strategia di base in nessuna di queste situazioni. Decidendo di prendere o lasciare la carta successiva nella scarpa, non potete influire in alcun modo sul risultato atteso dal dealer. Vedetela in questo modo. Se il dealer bruciasse sempre una carta prima di pescare, farebbe qualche differenza? No. Giocate la vostra mano secondo la strategia di base. È tutto ciò che potete fare.
Che ne dici di chiedere a chi si lamenta: "Quindi pensi che il casinò abbia messo di proposito le carte del Blackjack nell'ordine giusto in modo che la TUA mano vincesse e che l'ALTRO abbia rovinato tutto per te? Wow, è così carino da parte del casinò cercare di darti dei soldi!".
Ehi,
Quindi, quando si dice che bisogna essere in grado di passare 2 mazzi in 40 secondi, si intende fare una carta alla volta o in coppia?
Grazie
Questo avverrebbe in coppia. L'annullamento delle carte velocizza molto il processo.
Grazie per l'aiuto!
I have a crazy question, I play, ” blackjack professional simulator “, by pepperdogsoft.com on my iPhone it is set for six decks, das, h17, surrender and da2 and at rather large true counts it tell me to double hard 12 v a dealer 2 as an I18 suggestion, I have won that a couple of times, but in all my reading I can’t find anywhere else that is suggested, have you ever heard of such a thing.? I thought you should hit 12 v 2 until true 3. Thanks
I’m not familiar with that product, but I can tell you that if an app EVER says to double a hard 12, you should delete that app immediately!
The only time you should ever double hard 12 is if the dealer accidentally reveals the card you will receive and you know it is a 9!
Seriously, I would question the accuracy of anything else this app tells you. That’s a horrible mistake.
You are correct in hitting 12v2 until the true count reaches +3. At that point and above, stand. Never ever double.
(The index varies slightly in one-deck and some two-deck games.)
Thanks, I knew I wasn’t crazy, I thought the same thing you said, I would only ever do it I absolutely and positively knew my next card was a 9.
what is ment by rare hand like ( a 3 or 9 3 ) i am playing a game call hit or stand witch it grades you on the correct amount of hands that you get correct so far these two hands do not double this is a rare hand
I’m not sure why anyone would describe hands like (Ace,3) and (9,3) as “rare”. You will draw each of those hands about once every 169 hands or so.
As to whether or not to double, (9,3) is a hard 12 and should certainly never be doubled. (Ace,3) should be doubled vs dealer 5 & 6. (Also against a dealer 4 in some 1 and 2 deck games.) See the Motore strategico for accurate advice for any game.
How do you know when to increase betting when I play for five or ten bucks I win when I go up I lose? any help on staggering my betting to improve winning percentages.
There is no magic betting system of staggering your bets that can or will work. If you want to beat the game, learn to count cards. Then you can raise your bet when you know you have an advantage. If that doesn’t appeal to you, the cheapest way to play the game is to flat-bet the minimum.
No. Vedi questo: https://www.blackjackinfo.com/odds-blackjack-losing-6-hands-in-a-row/
Giocare a blackjack puntando il minimo, tranne puntare sempre l'importo che si ha dietro (perdite progressive) con l'aspettativa che la vincita riporti a zero le perdite ogni volta. È possibile vincere due mani abbastanza spesso da avere un profitto netto alla fine della giornata di gioco?
Thanks! You may be right about the surrender issue, although it is possible that the surrender may only work if the dealer does NOT have blackjack. I’m not bothering to check because the new version is coming soon anyway, which is a complete rewrite.
Hello,
I think there is one issue in trainer program.
When is using late surrender with the dealer ace trainer first offers surrendering instead of insurance.
And again I continue to win.
May be there is a reason to imitate dealers shuffling, instead of mathematical random shuffling.
Make sure you are including the cards behind the cut card in your unseen decks. In your example, when we are halfway through six decks, that means 3 decks have been dealt, and 3 decks are still unseen. It doesn’t matter that many of the unseen cards will never be used because they are behind the cut card. You still use them in the calculation. So a running count of +20 would convert to a true count of +20/3, or +6.66. With the same true count one deck later (4 decks used, 2 unseen), the true count would by +20/2 = +10.