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The above statements are all interesting. I like a table where I am confortable and prefer players who are good because it seems to lift the leveal of play. Card counting, even speed counting is mentally taxing after a few hours. Generally it is best to ignore all comments and concentrate on your playing. Gambling, especially blackjack, is a mathematical
experience so stay with some form of perfect strategy. Most people, including dealers, are not familiar with probabilities so their advice, mo matter how sincere,must be considered suspect.
Randomness is often misunderstook because it includes streaks of winning and losing. Not only within a shoe but even a weekend of gambling. Best advice I ever received is that one should play only with money one can afford to lose.
RESPONSE TO MICHAEL: Loosing $ 3,000 at the MGM.
I just returned from Sam’s Town in Tunica, MS and have been counting cards about 12 months.
I have found it very profitable. This was my 3rd trip in 12 months to Tunica but I also have been to Biloxi to practice my skill. My first trip out was not a big winner. As I have practiced and experienced the real casino again and again I have never returned a looser.
I also went to Las Vegas in May 2013 and I also played at the MGM. My experience was totally positive. But I enjoyed several casino’s while I was there and each experience was positive. I did not always win – because even a card counter cannot always win but I did come back with more money than I spent. And with never purchasing a meal or paying for a hotel room – I feel the experience was VERY POSITIVE.
Michael, With $ 3,000 I can’t imagine remaining at the same place when I could determine the cards were against me – I suggest you try again.
Bankroll, I always bring at least 40X my minimum unit bet. With 3K, my unit bet would have been $75.00. Why play the 6 deck shoe with that bankroll? With $50 to $75 unit, he could have played a 2 deck BJ with minimum bet of $50 heads up vs the dealer. If I lose 3 hands straight after I just sit, I leave that table, there’s no math to it but just 3 strikes I’m out.I had at one time, lost 9 straight hands! If he has a bankroll of $3K, he could afford to invest in a tutored BJ counting lesson.
I don’t know where he had played before but the mirror he was talking about, could have been the mirror peek the dealers check if the they have a natural.
If this guy was for real, the pit boss would have spoiled him; losing 3k in a few minutes, those are the guys they love. They have a live one. They’ll even entice him to come back have and bait the hook with a promised refund on his plane ticket plus a $100.00 slot free play for the wife or girl friend. The Asian dealers are probably more educated than him. I bet you, they probably speak at least 2 languages including English, not counting Mandarin and Cantonese. If he really knew how to count even from books, he would read that 2 decks are better than a 6 decks. I would have loved him to play at my table. The focus would have been on him because he would have a lot of tells that he was counting, and the focus would have been on him.
I love them to play with me at my table. The focus is on them not on me. At break time, the dealers and the bosses exchange stories about those stupid players. You know who I like to most to play at my table? A knock them dead beauty, and I’m not even paying her to sit with me by the hour.
As bad as the 6:5 payout on blackjack is, it’s still far better than doubling down on the blackjack by treating is as an eleven. The 6:5 is a sure thing, but if you double, you might lose or push the hand. You would be amazed how expensive that possibility is. (6:5 pays $12 on a $10 blackjack, while doubling the bet to $20 yields only $6.82 profit on average! That’s a HUGE difference. And that’s assuming the dealer has a 6 up, the best possible scenario.)
It’s time for a blog post on this topic, as I’ve heard quite a few players mention this idea. In the meantime, don’t do it! Growl at the dealer if you must, but let him pay you the 6:5.
As a “Skilled player” according to the casinos in AC, I would have to agree with you about Mr. Third Base taking the dealers break card. Countless times (no pun intended), I have tried to explain to people at the table that the shoe has no memory of who goes in & out at the table. There have been times when at Third base I will wave a hit with a hand five, deuce against the dealers Ten. People look at me in astonishment after the dealer shows 5 in the hole & breaks with a ten. Even if I can put the hole card on a low number, it doesn’t mean I will always prevail. One of my best observations is that everyone wants instant gratification on every hand. My favorite saying to other players flipping out because of non book moves, is to remember that there are no seat belts on the stools.
When gaining an advantage using basic strategy as outlined here, what role does tipping play? I doubt if a player who tips can still have a positive expectation.
Thank you, Ken.
You’re right. A player’s edge in this case is small enough that tips are going to eliminate the advantage. At most, you might consider a $1 tip after each blackjack. If you’re looking for a net positive result, tipping is quite expensive to that goal.
Am I saying you should not tip? No, because everyone has different goals and expectations at the table. But it’s also wise to be aware that you are paying the dealer for something if you tip, and it isn’t your cards. It’s for the experience at the table. But if your main goal is getting an edge, anything over minimal tipping is going to make that impossible if you are a basic strategy player.
What I mean is easier per dollar earned.
Here are a few possibilities: Hole carding table games, Video poker play for free play coupons, Promotions, Drawings.
The edge in each of those is usually much higher than card counting. The trick is they require different skills, and often a lot of scouting.
But when you do find an opportunity, you will have a bigger edge and much lower risk.
First, let me say that I always use this site to sharpen my skills before cruising/gambling. I’m well ahead of the game after the last 7 years…Thank You!
Second, I find that the last cruise I took…last month…I couldn’t count cards as they were constantly reshuffling the cards back into the machine. Pity, as I was a decent card counter! 8o))
Any suggestions?
Ah, the scourge of continuous shuffle machines. On a cruise ship it’s not unusual to see them at every table.
As you fear, card counting tactics are useless in that situation. Occasionally you may find a dealer that doesn’t immediately put the discards back into the shuffler, but the minor information you can gain won’t offset the base house edge of the game.
Note that it still may be possible to “beat” this game by getting more of your cruise costs comped than the expected loss on the game.
I haven’t exploited this angle myself so I don’t know how practical it is.
Don’t believe you can get cruise costs comped. Haven’t tried it, but as you have to prepay…Cruise lines are also famously selfish about giving anything away
Your strategy chart shows us 16vsT and 16vsA are SR.
I know it. Why are pair of 8’s vsT and pair of 8’s vsA H?
Basic strategy charts of other sites show us SR.
I’m sorry, my English is not good.
Grrr. I made a small change in the logic of how the No Peek chart displays its results back in August, and I broke this.
I simply MUST restructure this code so it is easier to work with without causing problems.
I’ll correct this within the next few days.
But, yes, in the 6D LS No Peek game, you should surrender 88vT and 88vA.
Sorry for the trouble.
The above statements are all interesting. I like a table where I am confortable and prefer players who are good because it seems to lift the leveal of play. Card counting, even speed counting is mentally taxing after a few hours. Generally it is best to ignore all comments and concentrate on your playing. Gambling, especially blackjack, is a mathematical
experience so stay with some form of perfect strategy. Most people, including dealers, are not familiar with probabilities so their advice, mo matter how sincere,must be considered suspect.
Randomness is often misunderstook because it includes streaks of winning and losing. Not only within a shoe but even a weekend of gambling. Best advice I ever received is that one should play only with money one can afford to lose.
RESPONSE TO MICHAEL: Loosing $ 3,000 at the MGM.
I just returned from Sam’s Town in Tunica, MS and have been counting cards about 12 months.
I have found it very profitable. This was my 3rd trip in 12 months to Tunica but I also have been to Biloxi to practice my skill. My first trip out was not a big winner. As I have practiced and experienced the real casino again and again I have never returned a looser.
I also went to Las Vegas in May 2013 and I also played at the MGM. My experience was totally positive. But I enjoyed several casino’s while I was there and each experience was positive. I did not always win – because even a card counter cannot always win but I did come back with more money than I spent. And with never purchasing a meal or paying for a hotel room – I feel the experience was VERY POSITIVE.
Michael, With $ 3,000 I can’t imagine remaining at the same place when I could determine the cards were against me – I suggest you try again.
Look I am not a huge card player and I have the opinion that the house always wins. But I will give your tips a go and let you know how I fared.
Bankroll, I always bring at least 40X my minimum unit bet. With 3K, my unit bet would have been $75.00. Why play the 6 deck shoe with that bankroll? With $50 to $75 unit, he could have played a 2 deck BJ with minimum bet of $50 heads up vs the dealer. If I lose 3 hands straight after I just sit, I leave that table, there’s no math to it but just 3 strikes I’m out.I had at one time, lost 9 straight hands! If he has a bankroll of $3K, he could afford to invest in a tutored BJ counting lesson.
I don’t know where he had played before but the mirror he was talking about, could have been the mirror peek the dealers check if the they have a natural.
If this guy was for real, the pit boss would have spoiled him; losing 3k in a few minutes, those are the guys they love. They have a live one. They’ll even entice him to come back have and bait the hook with a promised refund on his plane ticket plus a $100.00 slot free play for the wife or girl friend. The Asian dealers are probably more educated than him. I bet you, they probably speak at least 2 languages including English, not counting Mandarin and Cantonese. If he really knew how to count even from books, he would read that 2 decks are better than a 6 decks. I would have loved him to play at my table. The focus would have been on him because he would have a lot of tells that he was counting, and the focus would have been on him.
That’s how I play it: 2 hit; 3 stand. A small edge but it’s an edge.
I love them to play with me at my table. The focus is on them not on me. At break time, the dealers and the bosses exchange stories about those stupid players. You know who I like to most to play at my table? A knock them dead beauty, and I’m not even paying her to sit with me by the hour.
When playing 6:5 blackjack payoffs chose to play the blackjack as an eleven and double.
As bad as the 6:5 payout on blackjack is, it’s still far better than doubling down on the blackjack by treating is as an eleven. The 6:5 is a sure thing, but if you double, you might lose or push the hand. You would be amazed how expensive that possibility is. (6:5 pays $12 on a $10 blackjack, while doubling the bet to $20 yields only $6.82 profit on average! That’s a HUGE difference. And that’s assuming the dealer has a 6 up, the best possible scenario.)
It’s time for a blog post on this topic, as I’ve heard quite a few players mention this idea. In the meantime, don’t do it! Growl at the dealer if you must, but let him pay you the 6:5.
The 6:5 double down debacle is now documented here: https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blog/double-down-on-a-65-blackjack-read-this-first/
Ken,
As a “Skilled player” according to the casinos in AC, I would have to agree with you about Mr. Third Base taking the dealers break card. Countless times (no pun intended), I have tried to explain to people at the table that the shoe has no memory of who goes in & out at the table. There have been times when at Third base I will wave a hit with a hand five, deuce against the dealers Ten. People look at me in astonishment after the dealer shows 5 in the hole & breaks with a ten. Even if I can put the hole card on a low number, it doesn’t mean I will always prevail. One of my best observations is that everyone wants instant gratification on every hand. My favorite saying to other players flipping out because of non book moves, is to remember that there are no seat belts on the stools.
When gaining an advantage using basic strategy as outlined here, what role does tipping play? I doubt if a player who tips can still have a positive expectation.
Thank you, Ken.
You’re right. A player’s edge in this case is small enough that tips are going to eliminate the advantage. At most, you might consider a $1 tip after each blackjack. If you’re looking for a net positive result, tipping is quite expensive to that goal.
Am I saying you should not tip? No, because everyone has different goals and expectations at the table. But it’s also wise to be aware that you are paying the dealer for something if you tip, and it isn’t your cards. It’s for the experience at the table. But if your main goal is getting an edge, anything over minimal tipping is going to make that impossible if you are a basic strategy player.
Ken – “And, there are also easier ways to make money in the casino.”
Such as?
What I mean is easier per dollar earned.
Here are a few possibilities: Hole carding table games, Video poker play for free play coupons, Promotions, Drawings.
The edge in each of those is usually much higher than card counting. The trick is they require different skills, and often a lot of scouting.
But when you do find an opportunity, you will have a bigger edge and much lower risk.
First, let me say that I always use this site to sharpen my skills before cruising/gambling. I’m well ahead of the game after the last 7 years…Thank You!
Second, I find that the last cruise I took…last month…I couldn’t count cards as they were constantly reshuffling the cards back into the machine. Pity, as I was a decent card counter! 8o))
Any suggestions?
Again…THANK YOU!!
Thanks for the kind words about the site.
Ah, the scourge of continuous shuffle machines. On a cruise ship it’s not unusual to see them at every table.
As you fear, card counting tactics are useless in that situation. Occasionally you may find a dealer that doesn’t immediately put the discards back into the shuffler, but the minor information you can gain won’t offset the base house edge of the game.
Note that it still may be possible to “beat” this game by getting more of your cruise costs comped than the expected loss on the game.
I haven’t exploited this angle myself so I don’t know how practical it is.
Don’t believe you can get cruise costs comped. Haven’t tried it, but as you have to prepay…Cruise lines are also famously selfish about giving anything away
6decks,S17,DAS,Late Surrender,No Peek
Your strategy chart shows us 16vsT and 16vsA are SR.
I know it. Why are pair of 8’s vsT and pair of 8’s vsA H?
Basic strategy charts of other sites show us SR.
I’m sorry, my English is not good.
Grrr. I made a small change in the logic of how the No Peek chart displays its results back in August, and I broke this.
I simply MUST restructure this code so it is easier to work with without causing problems.
I’ll correct this within the next few days.
But, yes, in the 6D LS No Peek game, you should surrender 88vT and 88vA.
Sorry for the trouble.