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Hello there, firstly, I apologise if this has been asked and answered already, but could you go to a casino and watch a game from the sidelines whilst counting the table then when the edge is in the player’s favour, makes bets within basic strategy then? Not do this over and over but say for one or two rounds. Be in and out, make your profit (or loss) and leave?
Yes. Backcounting a table and dropping in when the count is good can be a very effective approach. It’s also known as “Wonging”, named for Stanford Wong. Although many casinos now restrict mid-shoe entry to prevent this and similar strategies, it’s quite common still. For low bankrolls especially, this is a great way to play against the shoe games.
Great! Thank you for your reply. I’ve been doing my homework and I’m excited to invest at the table as per the brilliant guidelines laid out in the lessons on here. I live in England and the casinos that I’ve been to seem to allow you to watch from the sidelines and join in at anytime.
Hi Ken, I’ve been practicing for te Microgame Classic BJ where there’s no peek. So BS says no doubling 11 on dealers 10 or ace, cause there’s a too high chance for BJ. It’s not a big problem, cause I stick to the BS. But maybe in a later version, if it’s not too much trouble, you can include an option for peek or no peek? Cheers from Holland.
Single deck, S17, DAS, 15 vs 10. According to your B.S. generator I should hit, but this tells me I should surrender. What it the correct play? Does the discrepancy have to do with hand composition? (I had king-5)
The correct strategy is hit. I checked the source for the trainer, and it does appear this is a bug. In 2 or more decks S17 LS, you should surrender 15vT. In 1 deck S17 LS, you should hit. The trainer is inaccurate, only in the one deck version. Thanks for pointing this out. I’ll make sure it is corrected in the new software.
As the GameMaster writes, in the 6D S17 game, you should stand with A7vA at TC +1 or higher. (Note that in H17 games, you should ALWAYS hit, no matter what the count.) You ask what is the logic behind the index of +1 in S17 games? Well, fewer small cards make standing better in two different ways. Fewer sixes mean less chance that the dealer has a six in the hole to give you an immediate win. And fewer 2s and 3s mean less chance of improving your A7 hand by hitting. But generally, don’t worry too much about the “why” of index numbers or basic strategy. It just is what it is. Thanks to this question, I also just discovered that my Advanced Strategy cards are missing this index! The next printing will correct that.
Ahh, that makes sense. I was thinking there would be no harm in a hitting if the odds were high that you would receive a 10. However, I suppose is there is still a good chance of receiving a 7, 8, or 9, which would put you in a bad situation with a positive count. Thanks!
Yes, basic strategy is the best way to play your hands, whether shuffled by hand or by machine, including continuous shuffle machines. As for card counting, continuous shuffle machines eliminate the ability to count cards, but regular shuffle machines do not.
WOW! Vegas is absolute shit now! And I keep dreaming about going there and trying out their blackjack tables. I currently reside in Hong Kong so I go to Macau to play and they have some, what I feel, pretty awesome rules namely: 50% surrender (unless dealer shows ace), black jack even pay (if you choose 1 to 1 surrender), Push on dealer and player blackjack, BJ pay out is 3-2, doubling after splitting is allowed, can double on any hand (some casinos only allows you to double at 11). And no tipping (house rules); if you tip, it goes directly to the casino.
I also went to Singapore Universal Studios and they have a casino there. They play Pontoon which is pretty awesome as well. All rules are the same except no “50% surrender of hands” but they have a nice perk of any 21 or black jack is an auto-win. So, for example, if dealer is showing an “A” and you have 10 and 2 and draw a 9 to reach a total of “21”, then you collect right away. How awesome is that!?
Anyway, I’ve only started playing recently. Good luck guys!
Fortunately that kind of plummeting true count doesn’t happen often in 6 deck games, so it doesn’t come up that often. (For example, in the middle of a shoe with 3 decks left, the running count would need to drop 18 points in one hand.) Less extreme drops happen all the time of course. I tend to just drop my bet anyway, regardless of whether I won the last hand. If you feel compelled to leave a bigger bet out for cover reasons, I would try to do so only occasionally, mixing it up.
So going back to my original question, how often do you stick to your betting schedule? If the count is 6 and I bet £120, I win and now the count is 0, is it better to leave the table than to bet £10?
See Lesson 8 for what spreads are recommended for the different games. The GameMaster’s advice for 4+ decks is this: “A game with four decks or more will require a spread of 1 to 12 in order to get an edge.” Your 1 to 6 spread is fine for a two-deck game, but it’s not going to be strong enough to beat the 6 deck game.
Hello there, firstly, I apologise if this has been asked and answered already, but could you go to a casino and watch a game from the sidelines whilst counting the table then when the edge is in the player’s favour, makes bets within basic strategy then? Not do this over and over but say for one or two rounds. Be in and out, make your profit (or loss) and leave?
Yes. Backcounting a table and dropping in when the count is good can be a very effective approach. It’s also known as “Wonging”, named for Stanford Wong.
Although many casinos now restrict mid-shoe entry to prevent this and similar strategies, it’s quite common still. For low bankrolls especially, this is a great way to play against the shoe games.
Great! Thank you for your reply. I’ve been doing my homework and I’m excited to invest at the table as per the brilliant guidelines laid out in the lessons on here. I live in England and the casinos that I’ve been to seem to allow you to watch from the sidelines and join in at anytime.
Hi Ken, I’ve been practicing for te Microgame Classic BJ where there’s no peek. So BS says no doubling 11 on dealers 10 or ace, cause there’s a too high chance for BJ. It’s not a big problem, cause I stick to the BS. But maybe in a later version, if it’s not too much trouble, you can include an option for peek or no peek? Cheers from Holland.
Send me the counting cards
Whats the veriation for dealer must hit soft 17? I would lile that chart if possible. Thanx
I don’t currently have the H17 indexes published on the site anywhere. You can get them on my Advanced Strategy Cards if you want.
Single deck, S17, DAS, 15 vs 10. According to your B.S. generator I should hit, but this tells me I should surrender. What it the correct play? Does the discrepancy have to do with hand composition? (I had king-5)
The correct strategy is hit. I checked the source for the trainer, and it does appear this is a bug.
In 2 or more decks S17 LS, you should surrender 15vT. In 1 deck S17 LS, you should hit.
The trainer is inaccurate, only in the one deck version.
Thanks for pointing this out. I’ll make sure it is corrected in the new software.
Here’s the accurate strategy chart you mentioned…
https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-basic-strategy-engine/?numdecks=1&soft17=s17&dbl=all&das=yes&surr=ls&peek=yes
Can somebody please explain the logic behind staying on A,7 vs A with a TC of 1 or greater? Thanks
As the GameMaster writes, in the 6D S17 game, you should stand with A7vA at TC +1 or higher.
(Note that in H17 games, you should ALWAYS hit, no matter what the count.)
You ask what is the logic behind the index of +1 in S17 games?
Well, fewer small cards make standing better in two different ways. Fewer sixes mean less chance that the dealer has a six in the hole to give you an immediate win. And fewer 2s and 3s mean less chance of improving your A7 hand by hitting.
But generally, don’t worry too much about the “why” of index numbers or basic strategy. It just is what it is.
Thanks to this question, I also just discovered that my Advanced Strategy cards are missing this index! The next printing will correct that.
Ahh, that makes sense. I was thinking there would be no harm in a hitting if the odds were high that you would receive a 10. However, I suppose is there is still a good chance of receiving a 7, 8, or 9, which would put you in a bad situation with a positive count. Thanks!
8 Decks Machine wash You can use it
Yes, basic strategy is the best way to play your hands, whether shuffled by hand or by machine, including continuous shuffle machines.
As for card counting, continuous shuffle machines eliminate the ability to count cards, but regular shuffle machines do not.
WOW! Vegas is absolute shit now! And I keep dreaming about going there and trying out their blackjack tables. I currently reside in Hong Kong so I go to Macau to play and they have some, what I feel, pretty awesome rules namely: 50% surrender (unless dealer shows ace), black jack even pay (if you choose 1 to 1 surrender), Push on dealer and player blackjack, BJ pay out is 3-2, doubling after splitting is allowed, can double on any hand (some casinos only allows you to double at 11). And no tipping (house rules); if you tip, it goes directly to the casino.
I also went to Singapore Universal Studios and they have a casino there. They play Pontoon which is pretty awesome as well. All rules are the same except no “50% surrender of hands” but they have a nice perk of any 21 or black jack is an auto-win. So, for example, if dealer is showing an “A” and you have 10 and 2 and draw a 9 to reach a total of “21”, then you collect right away. How awesome is that!?
Anyway, I’ve only started playing recently. Good luck guys!
Fortunately that kind of plummeting true count doesn’t happen often in 6 deck games, so it doesn’t come up that often. (For example, in the middle of a shoe with 3 decks left, the running count would need to drop 18 points in one hand.) Less extreme drops happen all the time of course. I tend to just drop my bet anyway, regardless of whether I won the last hand. If you feel compelled to leave a bigger bet out for cover reasons, I would try to do so only occasionally, mixing it up.
So going back to my original question, how often do you stick to your betting schedule? If the count is 6 and I bet £120, I win and now the count is 0, is it better to leave the table than to bet £10?
Thanks Ken, must have misread the advice.
I’d better find a place with a £5 minimum or save up another £3k then!
See Lesson 8 for what spreads are recommended for the different games. The GameMaster’s advice for 4+ decks is this: “A game with four decks or more will require a spread of 1 to 12 in order to get an edge.” Your 1 to 6 spread is fine for a two-deck game, but it’s not going to be strong enough to beat the 6 deck game.
Hey Ken,
That’s interesting because I thought that was the spread you recommended! I simply used betting unit = £10, and bet true count * betting unit.
Do I have this wrong, or are you just saying that I just won’t make very much with a betting unit as low as £10?
Cheers,
Mike