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Hi
I am using Knockout counting system with a mild success.
In that book, there is a chart for basic strategy that is a little bit different than what I see everywhere else.
In KO, for a pair of 2 or 3 against the dealers 2 or 3, the decision is to HIT,
But I know that in almost all charts it is advised to split. what should I do here especially if I am playing win no-hole-card rule?
The difference is whether or not you are allowed to double after split. If yes, you should split 2s and 3s against a dealer 2 or 3. If no, then you should hit these hands instead. To get a specific chart for your exact game, see our Blackjack Basic Strategy Engine, and click Adjust the Rules.
Just wondered what your thoughts were on the following:
Say you are playing 6 deck Blackjack and card counting. Your betting spread is £10 to £60, and the minimum is £10. Over a few hands, the true count steady rises to 6 or 7, at which point you start betting £60. Then, in one hand, the count drops to 0, but you win the hand.
Are you meant to reduce your bet from £60 to £10? If so, doesn’t that look a little suspicious?
In a 6 deck game using that small a spread, you really need every edge you can get whether it looks suspicious or not. Drop to the minimum immediately in that case. If you were spreading more aggressively and at higher amounts, you might consider being more discreet. But for your specific question, you can’t afford the cover cost.
See Lesson 8 for what spreads are recommended for the different games. The GameMaster’s advice for 4+ decks is this: “A game with four decks or more will require a spread of 1 to 12 in order to get an edge.” Your 1 to 6 spread is fine for a two-deck game, but it’s not going to be strong enough to beat the 6 deck game.
So going back to my original question, how often do you stick to your betting schedule? If the count is 6 and I bet £120, I win and now the count is 0, is it better to leave the table than to bet £10?
Fortunately that kind of plummeting true count doesn’t happen often in 6 deck games, so it doesn’t come up that often. (For example, in the middle of a shoe with 3 decks left, the running count would need to drop 18 points in one hand.) Less extreme drops happen all the time of course. I tend to just drop my bet anyway, regardless of whether I won the last hand. If you feel compelled to leave a bigger bet out for cover reasons, I would try to do so only occasionally, mixing it up.
I’ve started playing at several casinos in my area and they all have ‘Rewards memberships’. It seems to me I do not want to join them as that would make it easier for them to track my play. On the other hand every time I sit down to play they ask if I am a member and my answer of no may make me stand out as a possible counter. What do you think?
Thanks in advance
Steve
There is no one right answer to this question. For most low stakes counters, the free rooms and meals are a big part of the total return from the game. But yes, tracking is a dangerous thing. One reasonable approach is to earn and use the comps at one casino, where you hand in your card every time but play only a breakeven game with a lower spread and more cover. At the other places, play anonymously and more aggressively.
Fortunately, although it seems like a huge deal when you decline handing in your card, it’s not as uncommon as you think. If you must have a reason, I like the excuse that “I’m not even supposed to be here as far as my wife/girlfriend knows”. But don’t feel compelled to justify everything you do. That is more suspicious than just being quiet in almost every case. In general, just act like it’s not a big deal and say “No thanks”.
Hello there, firstly, I apologise if this has been asked and answered already, but could you go to a casino and watch a game from the sidelines whilst counting the table then when the edge is in the player’s favour, makes bets within basic strategy then? Not do this over and over but say for one or two rounds. Be in and out, make your profit (or loss) and leave?
Yes. Backcounting a table and dropping in when the count is good can be a very effective approach. It’s also known as “Wonging”, named for Stanford Wong.
Although many casinos now restrict mid-shoe entry to prevent this and similar strategies, it’s quite common still. For low bankrolls especially, this is a great way to play against the shoe games.
Great! Thank you for your reply. I’ve been doing my homework and I’m excited to invest at the table as per the brilliant guidelines laid out in the lessons on here. I live in England and the casinos that I’ve been to seem to allow you to watch from the sidelines and join in at anytime.
Hi Ken, I’ve been practicing for te Microgame Classic BJ where there’s no peek. So BS says no doubling 11 on dealers 10 or ace, cause there’s a too high chance for BJ. It’s not a big problem, cause I stick to the BS. But maybe in a later version, if it’s not too much trouble, you can include an option for peek or no peek? Cheers from Holland.
Hi
I am using Knockout counting system with a mild success.
In that book, there is a chart for basic strategy that is a little bit different than what I see everywhere else.
In KO, for a pair of 2 or 3 against the dealers 2 or 3, the decision is to HIT,
But I know that in almost all charts it is advised to split. what should I do here especially if I am playing win no-hole-card rule?
The difference is whether or not you are allowed to double after split. If yes, you should split 2s and 3s against a dealer 2 or 3. If no, then you should hit these hands instead. To get a specific chart for your exact game, see our Blackjack Basic Strategy Engine, and click Adjust the Rules.
Hey Ken, hey all,
Just wondered what your thoughts were on the following:
Say you are playing 6 deck Blackjack and card counting. Your betting spread is £10 to £60, and the minimum is £10. Over a few hands, the true count steady rises to 6 or 7, at which point you start betting £60. Then, in one hand, the count drops to 0, but you win the hand.
Are you meant to reduce your bet from £60 to £10? If so, doesn’t that look a little suspicious?
Just wondered what your thoughts were.
Cheers,
Mike
In a 6 deck game using that small a spread, you really need every edge you can get whether it looks suspicious or not. Drop to the minimum immediately in that case. If you were spreading more aggressively and at higher amounts, you might consider being more discreet. But for your specific question, you can’t afford the cover cost.
Hey Ken,
That’s interesting because I thought that was the spread you recommended! I simply used betting unit = £10, and bet true count * betting unit.
Do I have this wrong, or are you just saying that I just won’t make very much with a betting unit as low as £10?
Cheers,
Mike
See Lesson 8 for what spreads are recommended for the different games. The GameMaster’s advice for 4+ decks is this: “A game with four decks or more will require a spread of 1 to 12 in order to get an edge.” Your 1 to 6 spread is fine for a two-deck game, but it’s not going to be strong enough to beat the 6 deck game.
So going back to my original question, how often do you stick to your betting schedule? If the count is 6 and I bet £120, I win and now the count is 0, is it better to leave the table than to bet £10?
Fortunately that kind of plummeting true count doesn’t happen often in 6 deck games, so it doesn’t come up that often. (For example, in the middle of a shoe with 3 decks left, the running count would need to drop 18 points in one hand.) Less extreme drops happen all the time of course. I tend to just drop my bet anyway, regardless of whether I won the last hand. If you feel compelled to leave a bigger bet out for cover reasons, I would try to do so only occasionally, mixing it up.
Thanks Ken, must have misread the advice.
I’d better find a place with a £5 minimum or save up another £3k then!
I’ve started playing at several casinos in my area and they all have ‘Rewards memberships’. It seems to me I do not want to join them as that would make it easier for them to track my play. On the other hand every time I sit down to play they ask if I am a member and my answer of no may make me stand out as a possible counter. What do you think?
Thanks in advance
Steve
There is no one right answer to this question. For most low stakes counters, the free rooms and meals are a big part of the total return from the game. But yes, tracking is a dangerous thing. One reasonable approach is to earn and use the comps at one casino, where you hand in your card every time but play only a breakeven game with a lower spread and more cover. At the other places, play anonymously and more aggressively.
Fortunately, although it seems like a huge deal when you decline handing in your card, it’s not as uncommon as you think. If you must have a reason, I like the excuse that “I’m not even supposed to be here as far as my wife/girlfriend knows”. But don’t feel compelled to justify everything you do. That is more suspicious than just being quiet in almost every case. In general, just act like it’s not a big deal and say “No thanks”.
Ty Well done
Hello there, firstly, I apologise if this has been asked and answered already, but could you go to a casino and watch a game from the sidelines whilst counting the table then when the edge is in the player’s favour, makes bets within basic strategy then? Not do this over and over but say for one or two rounds. Be in and out, make your profit (or loss) and leave?
Yes. Backcounting a table and dropping in when the count is good can be a very effective approach. It’s also known as “Wonging”, named for Stanford Wong.
Although many casinos now restrict mid-shoe entry to prevent this and similar strategies, it’s quite common still. For low bankrolls especially, this is a great way to play against the shoe games.
Great! Thank you for your reply. I’ve been doing my homework and I’m excited to invest at the table as per the brilliant guidelines laid out in the lessons on here. I live in England and the casinos that I’ve been to seem to allow you to watch from the sidelines and join in at anytime.
Hi Ken, I’ve been practicing for te Microgame Classic BJ where there’s no peek. So BS says no doubling 11 on dealers 10 or ace, cause there’s a too high chance for BJ. It’s not a big problem, cause I stick to the BS. But maybe in a later version, if it’s not too much trouble, you can include an option for peek or no peek? Cheers from Holland.
Send me the counting cards
Whats the veriation for dealer must hit soft 17? I would lile that chart if possible. Thanx
I don’t currently have the H17 indexes published on the site anywhere. You can get them on my Advanced Strategy Cards if you want.
Oy vey, Greg! Talk about LUCKY!