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Hey Guys, I’m having trouble finding a RoR formula if anyone can give me some insight. I have an $8k bankroll and my options are limited to my local area to play. The best I found is 6d, H17, DAS, DA, NO RSA, NO Surr. I think it is .61% house edge. I am wondering what the RoR is for $10 vs $15 units with 1-12 spread top bet of $120 or $180. The $10 tables are very hard to find locally and I am resorting to $15. Please let me know if more info is needed as I don’t have the formula.
Thanks
If it’s really a non-replenishable bankroll, I think it’s too risky. My rule of thumb is to not make an initial bet of more than 1% of your bankroll. That would imply a $12K bank for $10-$120, and a $18K bank for $15-$180. I also realize that when starting out, that can be an unmanageable sum to accrue. Most players in that situation will take a shot with the smaller bank. If it falls apart, it’s back to work to build another bank.
I don’t trust my off-the-cuff RoR estimates because I’m out of practice. Let me see if I can do a quick job tonight to get a real estimate for you.
I ran CVCX from Qfit.com to get some numbers.
CVCX is worth the money for these sorts of calculations, even though it takes a while to get the hang of it.
6 decks, S17, DAS, $8000 bank:
$10 to $120 spread:
75% (4.5/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $22, RoR: 24%
83% (5.0/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $26, RoR: 15%
$15 to $180 spread:
75% (4.5/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $32, RoR: 38%
83% (5.0/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $40, RoR: 28%
With a $12K bank, 75% penetration $10-$120 RoR drops to 11%.
With a $12K bank, 75% penetration $15-$180 RoR is still 24%.
The killer in 6+ deck games is the cost of waiting through the crud. If you can backcount, it makes a huge difference.
That’s tough most places these days due to mid-shoe entry restrictions and increased heat.
But at least make sure you take breaks on really negative counts. That will help a lot.
January 2016. If you have cards with the error and would like them replaced, email me at [email protected]
There are likely still some of the old printing in the distribution channel.
Would there be a harm in using the betting table you mentioned above – regarding 0.5% increase in advantage/true count with the Omega II count? If so, what number should I use instead of 0.5%?
Hey i am pretty good at card counting,
Only thing is when i am actually playing and trying to count i lose the count.
I thought i would learn to speed count just while i am playing Black jack.
I needed to know if you think this method would work?
( I usually get in games with about 6 players myself included)
Thanks
Your comment is a little confusing. I assume you are asking what I think of the “speed count”, a simpler method of counting cards. I’m not a fan of the speed count, because although it does work, it is much weaker than a count like KO. Most players find that with some practice they can use KO. Your results will be much better if you can do that.
Hey thanks for getting right back to me.
Sorry about the confusion on the question.
You did answer my question.i have a hard time keeping the count while i am playing in the casino.
I got basic strategy down real well.
On my bank roll i stay pretty much even.
No big loses or wins.
I just need more practice on the count under pressure
Thanks for the input.
Your products really r helping me improve my game.
Thank you for the info. I see you calculated stand on 17. I only have the option of hit on soft 17. I can assume the risk of ruin and 100/h win rate will be even worse than the calculations above, correct?
And I claim I looked at your message before deciding! Oops, my mistake!
Here is a run for H17:
$10 to $120 spread:
75% pen, Win per 100 hands: $16, RoR: 32%
83% pen, Win per 100 hands: $22, RoR: 21%
$15 to $180 spread:
75% pen, Win per 100 hands: $24, RoR: 47%
83% pen, Win per 100 hands: $33, RoR: 36%
AND, I realize now that I posted NDAS numbers before.
I corrected the numbers in the S17 reply. They are now DAS as intended.
Since the card tags are often similar between systems, the index numbers will often also be similar. But, no, there are usually notable differences too. You should use indexes customized for your system. That’s especially true when you start comparing multi-level counts and single-level counts. Index numbers for Omega would usually be substantially larger values than Hi-Lo indexes, because the card tags are higher.
Hey Guys, I’m having trouble finding a RoR formula if anyone can give me some insight. I have an $8k bankroll and my options are limited to my local area to play. The best I found is 6d, H17, DAS, DA, NO RSA, NO Surr. I think it is .61% house edge. I am wondering what the RoR is for $10 vs $15 units with 1-12 spread top bet of $120 or $180. The $10 tables are very hard to find locally and I am resorting to $15. Please let me know if more info is needed as I don’t have the formula.
Thanks
I re-read my post and wanted to clear up I am inquiring about “risk of ruin” with the RoR acronym.
Thanks,
Hi Chad,
I just don’t have time at the moment to run any sims for you. Check at blackjacktheforum.com.(Scratch that. Running sims now.)Thanks for the reply Ken, In your opinion is $8K bankroll sufficient for $15 tables?
If it’s really a non-replenishable bankroll, I think it’s too risky. My rule of thumb is to not make an initial bet of more than 1% of your bankroll. That would imply a $12K bank for $10-$120, and a $18K bank for $15-$180. I also realize that when starting out, that can be an unmanageable sum to accrue. Most players in that situation will take a shot with the smaller bank. If it falls apart, it’s back to work to build another bank.
I don’t trust my off-the-cuff RoR estimates because I’m out of practice. Let me see if I can do a quick job tonight to get a real estimate for you.
I ran CVCX from Qfit.com to get some numbers.
CVCX is worth the money for these sorts of calculations, even though it takes a while to get the hang of it.
6 decks, S17, DAS, $8000 bank:
$10 to $120 spread:
75% (4.5/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $22, RoR: 24%
83% (5.0/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $26, RoR: 15%
$15 to $180 spread:
75% (4.5/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $32, RoR: 38%
83% (5.0/6) penetration: Win per 100 hands: $40, RoR: 28%
With a $12K bank, 75% penetration $10-$120 RoR drops to 11%.
With a $12K bank, 75% penetration $15-$180 RoR is still 24%.
The killer in 6+ deck games is the cost of waiting through the crud. If you can backcount, it makes a huge difference.
That’s tough most places these days due to mid-shoe entry restrictions and increased heat.
But at least make sure you take breaks on really negative counts. That will help a lot.
has this error been corrected yet?
Yes, the newest versions of the card have corrected this issue.
when were the newest versions of the card corrected and printed?
January 2016. If you have cards with the error and would like them replaced, email me at [email protected]
There are likely still some of the old printing in the distribution channel.
Would there be a harm in using the betting table you mentioned above – regarding 0.5% increase in advantage/true count with the Omega II count? If so, what number should I use instead of 0.5%?
Site search is your friend for questions like this.
See https://www.blackjackinfo.com/knowledge-base/blackjack-card-counting/aoii-advantage-at-each-true-count/
Hey i am pretty good at card counting,
Only thing is when i am actually playing and trying to count i lose the count.
I thought i would learn to speed count just while i am playing Black jack.
I needed to know if you think this method would work?
( I usually get in games with about 6 players myself included)
Thanks
Your comment is a little confusing. I assume you are asking what I think of the “speed count”, a simpler method of counting cards. I’m not a fan of the speed count, because although it does work, it is much weaker than a count like KO. Most players find that with some practice they can use KO. Your results will be much better if you can do that.
( continued)
I Always have to count in a six deck shoe.
Thanks.
Hey thanks for getting right back to me.
Sorry about the confusion on the question.
You did answer my question.i have a hard time keeping the count while i am playing in the casino.
I got basic strategy down real well.
On my bank roll i stay pretty much even.
No big loses or wins.
I just need more practice on the count under pressure
Thanks for the input.
Your products really r helping me improve my game.
Staying at Wynn there are still tables in both casinos with 3:2 and sh17 but you have to hunt them out they are typically higher min bet tables.
Thank you for the info. I see you calculated stand on 17. I only have the option of hit on soft 17. I can assume the risk of ruin and 100/h win rate will be even worse than the calculations above, correct?
And I claim I looked at your message before deciding! Oops, my mistake!
Here is a run for H17:
$10 to $120 spread:
75% pen, Win per 100 hands: $16, RoR: 32%
83% pen, Win per 100 hands: $22, RoR: 21%
$15 to $180 spread:
75% pen, Win per 100 hands: $24, RoR: 47%
83% pen, Win per 100 hands: $33, RoR: 36%
AND, I realize now that I posted NDAS numbers before.
I corrected the numbers in the S17 reply. They are now DAS as intended.
Since the card tags are often similar between systems, the index numbers will often also be similar. But, no, there are usually notable differences too. You should use indexes customized for your system. That’s especially true when you start comparing multi-level counts and single-level counts. Index numbers for Omega would usually be substantially larger values than Hi-Lo indexes, because the card tags are higher.